The Real Fonck?

[spacecrow]

I just read the following review:

http://m2reviews.cnsi.net/reviews/ww1/cleavers13.htm

If correct, this would make Fonck to be a very admirable guy. Other accounts (sorry can't site them) tell a different story. Which is correct? Hoping Fonck was truly the leader protrayed in the review.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Spacecrow:
René Fonck was an egotist and tended to brag about his abilities as a pilot and marksman and accordingly was not liked He claim a total of 125 victories and was credited with 75. He conduct during WW2 did not endure him to the Allied pilots who servedin both wars.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[cameldriver]

Right on Dan San. I do not doubt Fonck's abilities as a pilot and a fighter, but I think that he was wanting as a leader and human being.

[Gregvan]

Hi,

No one doubts Fonck's extraordinary abilities or his mature approach to aerial warfare. He practiced only moderate drinking, got plenty of sleep, practiced his shooting constantly and paced himself (unlike Guynemer). However, Jon Guttman interviewed several French and American fighter pilots who knew Fonck, and they all had basically the same recollections. Jon writes in his Osprey book on Spad XII/XIII Aces of World War 1, "Fonck's self-absorbed attitude alienated his fellow Storks, during one of his pompous lectures on how to be a successful fighter pilot, Baylies and Parsons bet a bottle of champagne that they could shoot down a German before he could." In the famous aerial combats that followed that day (9 May 1918) Fonck lost his wingmen, Thouzelier and Brugere, in the fog and proceeded to shoot down a German two-seater, part of his amazing bag of six for the day. Fonck wrote, "I prefer to fly alone in the middle of my adversaries anyway, without having the additional responsibilities of protecting my comrades. I try never to let a comrade down, but above all, I like my freedom of action, for it is indispensable to the success of my undertakings.' This hardly sounds like the 'team player' characterization given in the article spacecrow cites.

Another error in the article is that Kurt Wüsthoff was one of Fonck's victims. Fonck may well have visited Wüsthoff in the hospital (wouldn't that have been an interesting conversation ?) but Wüsthoff was brought down by SE5a's from No. 24 Squadron.

Greg VanWyngarden

[spacecrow]

Originally posted by Dan_San_Abbott@Apr 4 2004, 09:17 PM
[b] Spacecrow:
René Fonck was an egotist and tended to brag about his abilities as a pilot and marksman and accordingly was not liked He claim a total of 125 victories and was credited with 75. He conduct during WW2 did not endure him to the Allied pilots who servedin both wars.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

This is more in line with what I have read than the article I posted above. Thanks.

[Vin]

The review is part of a Models review page. Not surprising that it is light on in content, contains at least one inaccuracy and omits other less favourable comments raised by other contributors. Taking the piece with a grain of salt anyway, I would have thought of Fonck that had he come from an English-speaking country, he would have been far better known. I suspect that his comparative anonymity has more to do with his being French and not either British or American than his WW 11 affiliations.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Vin:
I seriously doubt that had Fonck came from an english speaking country, he would have been more well known. Consider this, Fonck had far more victories than Guynemer, who, the French revered then and now. But Fonck made it impossible to like him. I have never heard anyone speak of Fonck with admiration. I think he would have been disliked in either England and the USA. Read Fonck's Biography, "Ace of Aces" published by Doubleday & Company Inc. New York, 1967. The title tells you something, "Ace of Aces" ! Fonck had 75 victories, Mvr had 80, so who is the Ace of Aces? It sure as hell ain't Fonck!
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[NeilE]

Originally posted by Dan_San_Abbott@Apr 6 2004, 06:08 AM
[b] The title tell you something, "Ace of Aces" ! Fonck had 75 Mvr had 80, so who is the Ace of Aces? It sure as hell ain't Fonck!
Blue skies,
Dan-San

It seems a reasonable claim by Fonck to me. After all, he survived the war, was the highest scoring survivior, and thus had a fair shot of creating his own mythology if he wanted.

Maybe it was just as well that MVR didn't survive. I wonder would he have been as revered if he had been found sitting on the defendants' benches at Nuremburg in 1945?

All the best

Neil

[vb136]

In all fairness to Fonck: His autobiography was called Mes Combats when originally published in France, no reference to being the ace of aces there.
I guess that the British/US publisher changed the title to boost the sales.

However, following the death of Guynemer, neither Fonck nor any of the top French aces (Nungesser, Madon etc) received the same "worship" as Guynemer had been subjected to during his life-time or following his death.

Best wishes

[Vin]

Tom describes Fonck as “one of the lesser-known aces” from WW 1. His assessment of Fonck’s comparative notoriety is in the context of all WW1 pilots, not just the French. If Fonck is less well known than pilots from other countries then it will be because of what has been, or has not been, published about him. Books and articles in English are predominantly about Commonwealth and American pilots. There are vastly more English language readers than French language readers, ergo it stands to reason that he is less well known than English language pilots with considerably less achievement. Tom could say the same of Guynemer, Nungesser, Boyau or Baracca, Brumowski, Kazakoff etc. Fonck’s choice of companions 22 years later are not the reason.