Seaplane aces?

[Mangrove]

Do anybody knows names of seaplane aces of WW1? And who was the best and how many he scores?

[R Pope]

Gottfried von Banfield flew Brandenberg CC's, for one.

[Barrett]

Obltn. zur Zee Friedrich Christiansen was by far the best known floatplane ace with 13 victories (sometimes credited with 21.) His score somehow included a British submarine; he actually destroyed at least 7 e/a. Mainly he flew Hansa types, and snacked on Curtiss & Felixstowe seaplanes in 1917-18.

Ltn. Erich Bönisch was a gunner in Brandenberg aqnd Friedrichshafen seaplanes in FLanders during 1916. Five victories flying with various pilots.

Some months ago there was discovery of a "new" French Navy ace but I don't recall his a/c type.

[Reinout]

Hi,

Friedrich Christiansen of the Hornets of Zeebrugge was an accomplished seaplane ace. However, determining his score is very much a work in progress. He's been variously credited with as few as a handful and as many as 27 victories though German lists generally credit him with 21 as his final score.

Neal O'Connor devoted a good section of his Volume VII in the Aviation Awards series to Christiansen and his victory score. He poses the very real possibility of victories gained in conjunction with German submarines and other naval units - as leader of the flight he was credited alone (like in the case of the submarine C.25 where he and 4 or 5 others attacked but only he was credited). His score also includes steamers and a Dutch schooner according to Neal who arrives at 19 as a final tally.

According to ATL the victory list shows: 13 victories including a submarine (C.25) and a coastal airship (C.27).

The ATL authors conclude much the same as O'Connor about how this seaplane pilot got his victories. Christiansen's name shows up very little on contemporary victory lists like the Militär Nachrichtenblatt.

Further troubling is a statement in Volume VII saying that of the seaplanes in Christiansen's score, none were acknowledged in The Sky Their Battlefield, but I do not have that book so cannot confirm.

Christiansen's score is very difficult to comprise. As a matter of fact, his Pour le Merite was not granted for his aerial victories (as his later "official" tally would suggest) but for his stellar performance as a naval flier and leader.

To really get into this I'd advise a look through the Christiansen entries in both books mentioned above and perhaps a look at the British seaplane losses in TSTB.

Kind regards,

Reinout

[R Pope]

Mikhail Ivanovich Safonov, the Eagle of the Baltic, flew the Shchetinin M9 from lakes and rivers. Don't know his score but he was an ace.

[Soderbaum]

Hi all

Friedrich Christiansen was promoted KptLt dR MA on 27 Sep 1918. According to official German Marine doucements his total score was FIVE victories, which included one Wachfahrzeug(boat).
....So what Neal O¨Connor and others has written about his victories is "rubbish" or let us say wrong information...

Erich Boenisch was Lt zS, and he was the first German flyer to become an Ace if we follow the French guidelines for Aces...

The First German Sea pilot who received five victories was Oberflugmeister Karl Meyer. He received one further victory as land flyer...

One more possible German Sea plane pilot who might have received five victories is Lt dR MA Wilhelm Schubert....

It is un-questionable in my meaning that Gottfried Banfield was the leading Sea plane flyer during the War, with his nine confirmed victories...

As I can see, Safonov only had possible one or two victories on Sea planes(Grig M9?)

What about the Italians .?

h34r:
Gunnar

[Reinout]

Friedrich Christiansen was promoted KptLt dR MA on 27 Sep 1918. According to official German Marine doucements his total score was FIVE victories, which included one Wachfahrzeug(boat).
....So what Neal O¨Connor and others has written about his victories is "rubbish" or let us say wrong information...

Gunnar, I must say that both Neal O'Connor and the ATL team have arrived at a score of at least 13 or more for Christiansen. They also both note that on a list published by the germans in 1918, FC had only 4 or 5 victories. However, if you read the introduction to ATL you will find a statement saying that the Nachrichtenblatt isn't the end all to victory scores as a person could have more victories than granted in that report. It is also not chronological.

May I ask where these Marine documents are and where they come from? Unless they've surfaced after the publications alluded to above the authors may very well have seen them - and still concluded that more victories were in order. The discussion on FC's victories as presented by Neal O'Connor is quite a piece of work and I must refer you to it for a better view on the nature of FC's victory record. The FC biography is on page 347 of Volume VI (I mistakenly stated it was in Volume VII in an earlier post).

You state FC has 5 victories according to that Marine document, one of which was a boat - where does that leave the two best-documented victories of FC, the C.25 and C.27 submarine and airship? There are pictures taken during the strafing of C.25 and at least one picture of the burning C.27 going down. Yet they're not included in that Marine list. Odd.

Can you enlighten us further by adding the details of that Marine document?

Thank you and kind regards,

Reinout

[Soderbaum]

Hi Reinout

I would say that neither O¨Connor or the ATL authors(and others) has studied the great amount of Marine documents which are stored in the archive in Freiburg.... *
"They" also mix up victories claimed by See I with those which actually was confirmed to Christiansen..

Christiansen victories has been discussed a couple of times earlier here on the Forum...among the threads are "Who really shot down C 27" etc etc

I can prove(and anyone else who reads some documents in Freiburg) that these authors are wrong in their assumptions and theories about Christiansen victories..

*More or less the complete German Marine archive survived the destruction of WW2 as this material was moved to the castle Tambach...



Gunnar

p.s. I have O´Connors Volume 6

[duedicoppe]

Hello Gunnar!
The Italian seaplanes aces were "Tenente di Vascello" (Lieutnant) Orazio Pierozzi, 7 victories, "Tenente di Vascello" Federico Martinengo, 5 victories and "Sottotenente di Vascello" (Jr. Lieutnant) Umberto Calvello, 5 victories. Their fighter was the little, wonderful Macchi M5.
If you want more data, I can send you.
Happy landings
Paolo duedicoppe

[Soderbaum]

Hello Paolo

I would be very glad to receive further information about these three Italian Sea plane Aces, especially information regarding their victories and possible opponents....

What does "duedicoppe" stands for..?


Gunnar