Jasta 7 without Jacobs

I am trying to do some research on Jasta 7 during the period of Ltn Jacobs leave and absence from the front: 23/07/18 – 23/08/18. I am trying to piece together its activities from combat reports of British squadrons. Here is some information I have obtained; any further information would be greatly received. Thanks to Stephen Lawson for pointing me in the right direction as his translation of the Jacobs diary in C&C 25/3 is a invaluable German source, but has scant info on this period, does anyone have any other German sources for this month.

24/7 Combat with No. 85 sqd. Vzfw Reuss WIA near Menin. Capt Randall & Capt McGregor both claimed the same black fuselage Fokker biplane with white tail.

"…Getting to point blank range, I fired a good burst into the E.A. As I zoomed away I observed E.A. going down in a wide spiral with the propeller stopped apparently out of control." Capt M.C. McGregor.

"…I noticed one of the top patrol getting good bursts at a Fokker when the latter dived away with black smoke coming from fuselage. As E.A. came down he pulled out of dive and I got in a burst with both guns at very close range. E.A. then seemed to have some difficulty in getting control. Meantime I sat on his tail and got in several more bursts until about 3,000 feet, when I saw him crash at Sheet 36 B12." Capt Randall.

30/7 Possible combat with No. 210 sqd Lieut Joseph & Capt Crundall claimed Fokker biplane & Pfalz scout OOC respectively both of which were described as painted black.

"At 09,55 while leading a flight I observed 8 Fokker Biplanes and Pfalz scouts E. of Dixmude. Two dived on me. One was attacked by Lieut Sutcliffe. The other after firing a burst overshot and I turned and fired a burst from his left side at 50 to 30 yds. As we converged. E.A. then side-slipped, stalled, spun and went down in a steep dive out of control. Last seen at 10,000 still falling out of control." Lieut Joseph.

"…I saw 6 Fokker Biplanes and Pfalz scouts 4 to 5 miles E. of Dixmude. I attacked the highest Pfalz from above, firing150 rounds at 20 yds. Range. E.A. was then doing a gentle bank to the left and I saw my tracers going into the engine and pilot’s end of the fuselage. E.A. then fell into a side-slip, then on its back and again into a steep diving side-slip, and went down out of control." Capt Crundall.

11/8 Possible combat with No. 210 sqd. Lieut. Swale & Lieut. Welsh claimed Fokker biplane destroyed and OOC. Lieut. Swale described his Fokker as having a "…big white "T" on left-hand toplane." See C&C 25/3 1994 page 128 or Fokker D.VII Anthology 1 for photo. While Lieut Welsh described his as "…painted back, with white markings."

"…I attacked the leader, firing 150 rounds at 35-25 yds. range and raking his fuselage from end to end. E.A. went down out of control and I saw him crash just W. of Roulers." Lieut Swale.

"…near Roulers and fired 150 rounds at range of about 20 yds. from the tail. E.A. turned on his back and went down obviously out of control. I watched him down for some distance but was unable to observe result owing to the presence of another E.A." Lieut. Welsh.

I am still collecting Combat reports and will be at the PRO next week. I will post more extracts from this period soon.

Yours
Stuart Wyatt

[Gregvan]

Great Information, Stuart !!

As I mentioned in the Fokker Dr I Aces book, on 13 August Holleran of 56 Squadron wrote that he flew a patrol at 8:30 AM, leading a patrol for his first time as flight commander. He says they encountered a formation of 15 Fokker biplanes, , then another another formation of the 'same strength' came down on them. During the melee, Holleran wrote, "I half lost my lead and Jacobs, in a silver triplane, flew for miles just under me and I didn't have enough reserve speed to risk a dive on him. I can't quite figure out why his followers did not throw away some of their height and close with us since they had numbers and position."

Now, it certainly wasn't Jacobs - who was on leave - and he never flew a "silver triplane". St Quentin is pretty far from Jasta 7's territory anyway. However, I simply find it interesting that some of the RAF pilots knew who Jacobs was, and apparently knew he often flew a triplane.

Thanks so much for posting this great info. Good luck with your search in the PRO.

Greg VanWyngarden

[Craig]

Sounds like 210 Squadron pretty much claimed the whole of Jasta 7. in a very, very short time.
Funny how that works.......

[Frank_Olynyk]

It is the same E D Crundall.

Stuart:
The 210 combat reports for 1918 are mostly in the big block from Air 1/1218 to Air 1/1228. In particular, Air 1/1228/204/5/2634/210Sqdn. There are a small number in the 11th Brigade CRs for June 1918. From July to the end of the war they are concentrated in the 5 Group CR collection Air 1/59/15/9/65 (that part I had microfilmed). All of the 1218 (1217?) to 1228 (1229?) block has also been microfilmed (not by me, fortunately). The 11th Brigade CRs have not been microfilmed. About 5-6 scrapbooks with the CRs pasted in; but there is a hole for Jan-Feb 1918 as I remember.

Frank.

[JoaoMVM]

Silver triplane...maybe von Greim?
Im also interested in some info about any Jasta 7 victories during Jacobs leave..

Joao

[Cigogne]

There are at least two photos that I have seen published that show a lighter finished what could be a silver triplane in the Windsock Triplane Special of a few years back and elsewhere. The machine has a uniform finish, enlarged cooling cutouts in the cowling, late narrow style crosses, and in one view a flare gun mounted on the right side of the cockpit.

Perhaps this is the machine?

Cigogne

[Craig]

Im also interested in some info about any Jasta 7 victories during Jacobs leave..

Joao

How could they scorer any victories at all?
They'd all been shot down, remember?

[Vlaming]

24/07
according to ATT - 85 Sqdn had a fight with Jasta 43 that day.

3 Jasta 43 pilots made a force landing and another plane was heavily damaged.
Does anyone have the names of those pilots?

So that could explain a part of those 6 - 85 Sqdn claims that day.

Jasta 7 could also be involved ofcourse in that fight.

regards

Wout

[Rick]

Wout,

I have the following jasta 43 'losses' on 24Jul18:

Vzfw. Ernst Wiehle, forced to land at Armentieres.

Ltn.d.R. Robert Schmidt, forced to land at Rumbeke.

Ltn.d.R. Friedrich Jakobs, WIA over Lille (shot in the foot).

Hey, 3 losses out of 6 claims - pretty good for the RAF! R.

[Soderbaum]

Rick

Were any of these three aircraft damaged..???


Gunnar