Mick Mannock quote

Re Mick's infamous quote on hearing about the death of v. R, "I hope he roasted the whole way down."

Did he say that to a mess mate who later passed it on? Or did he talk to a journalist, giving the quote? What is the source for the quote? How do we know that Mick actually said it?

[R Pope]

My sources say the quote reads sizzled, not roasted. The statement is made understandable when you learn of the reasons behind his hatred of all things German.

[Gregvan]

Hi,

Well, I thought it probably originated in the writings of Ira "Taffy" Jones, but I've been unable to find that exact quote in Taffy's books. Taffy was, of course, a worshipper and biographer of Mannock, having flown with him in 74 Squadron, and he always tried to prove that Mannock was the "king" of WWI aces, far better than Richthofen and, er, that certain Canadian fellow.

Anyway, in "An Air Fighter's Scrapbook", Taffy's 'diary' entry (which I believe he sometimes revised for the book) for 21 April 1918, Taffy writes how 74 Squadron was extremely glum after seeing their first pilot lost in action that day, when Lt S C H Begbie had been shot down in flames during a dogfight . Taffy writes, "The great Baron von Richthofen has been killed in our lines. Thank God for that. I cannot subscribe, however, to Mick's hope that he, too, died in flames. This flaming business is no fun...At dinner tonight we drank to Begbie's memory, coupling with his name that of Richthofen-as Mick said, in the hope that he "was in flames, too."


Then in his book "King of Air Fighters" Taffy writes of the same event: "Mick brought the news to the mess that Richthofen had been killed. He was delighted. Most of the pilots were secretly sorry that he was dead, and when one of them voiced his feelings, Mannock told him that he had better send home for his petticoats! At dinner, a member suggested drinking, "To the health of the dead Baron." Some drank to the toast, but Mannock wouldn't. He had as poor an opinion of Richthofen as he had of all other Germans, except Voss and Boelcke, whom he admired."

So there, no real word for word quote, but you get the gist of the atmosphere.

Greg VanWyngarden

[Gregvan]

Hello Again,

There is an interesting parallel in 56 Squadron, of course, related in McCudden's excellent book "Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps". On the 3rd of October 1917 (shortly after they had killed Voss), the squadron received a message stating the Rhys-Davids had been awarded the DSO, Barlow received a second bar to his MC and McCudden also received a bar to his MC. At the celebratory banquet, Rhys-Davids gave a speech, said, "he would very much like to express his appreciation of the enemy whom we had daily fought, and who as a rule put up such fine examples of bravery and courage, and he felt that he was perhaps doing an unprecedented thing when he asked us all to rise to drink to"Von Richthofen, our most worthy enemy,' which toast we all drank with the exception of one non-flying officer who remained seated, and said, "No, I won't drink to the health of that devil."

I think these two separate incidents have sometimes been confused. They do make an interesting comparison, though.

Greg

[Gregvan]

Hi Again :lol: ,

Well, I found what is perhaps the "source", and once again, it all started with Arch Whitehouse's "The Years of the Sky Kings", the source of so many myths and fallacies - yet it was one of those seminal books that got many of us started.

In Chapter 5, "The Year of the Sky Gods-1917", he says of Mannock, "He had little use for so-called chivalry and was frankly delighted when the news of Richthofen's death reached his squadron. He refused to drink a toast to the dead Baron. Instead, according to those men who served with him, Mannock growled: 'I hope he roasted all the way down!" and sat down to his meal."

I wonder if this is the first time this 'quote' actually appears in print (1959) ? Can anyone find it quoted earlier, or actually quoted by a member of 74 Squadron who was there? Whitehouse certainly put fictitious words in people's mouths before, and I wonder if this is such a case.

Greg VanWyngarden

Hi folks,
The only place I've ever read the quote was in James Dudgeon's excellent biog of Mick. I double-checked, and nowhere does he provide a reference for said quote.......So, not much help really...Perhaps he also read Arch Whitehouse's book as it precedes his by a few years.
Regards
Paul

[Vin]

It is starting to look like yet another of what I observe to be the case of many “incidents” in WW 1 aviation. Doubtful validity, proof by repetition only.

[Ginger.]

If he didn&#39;t say it then he should have&#33; <_<

"Gentlemen, remember. Always above, seldom on the same level, never underneath."

For all we know, it had been a long, grueling day for him, and Mick was understandably impatient with all the toasting and looked forward to his supper; what he probably said was, "I hope the roast is on the way down..."

Captain "Lost Generator" Lewis

[Lufbery]