MvR's death

[Barker]

Frank Luke shot him down and then shot himself.

[Bushrod]

Has anyone checked on W. Bishop's activities on that fateful day?

[Barrett]

Apparently on 21 Apr. Bishop was raiding a well camouflaged German airfield in England, but he couldn't identify the location when he returned. h34r:

[normanf]

Dan-San. Don't ask me technical questions, I am a people person. From memory Alan Bennett got this from guys that have flown Triplanes, admittedly rebuilds but as Alan is also a pilot I assume he knows what he's talking about. Norman

It is a source of continual irritation to me that over eighty years after Von Richthofen was shot down by Roy Brown a handful of "experts" have initiated a campaign to discredit Capt. Brown and rewrite history.
They have used trajectory analysis , ballistic tables computer animation and recalled the unofficial "testimony" of footsoldiers who allegedly witnessed this event. Capt. Brown was given official credit for the kill,he was there and he was an experienced combat pilot . His reports are concise and unvarnished . The "experts" produce all sorts of "theories" as to what happened and drive at the opinion that MVR was killed not by RB but by a single phantom bullet [which has mysteriously disappeared] fired by an Australian footsoldier. The grim truth to this fable is that these persons have bought into the "knights of the air" nonsense , which paints a picture of glorious combat fought by "gentlemen" in the romantic skies of WW 1 . Mick Mannock had a slightly different opinion of death in the skies as did most of those who actually faced violent death at the hands of enemy pilots . MVR was just to good a pilot to be shot down by some Canuck with a bad ulcer, right ? It had to be ground fire to support the myth of the Invincible Red Baron as perceived and fostered by a group of hero-worshippers . MVR killed perhaps eighty young men , sons , fathers , rogues and "gentlemen" . Was he proud of this bloody record ? Yes.
Roy Brown hated the killing and admitted to being sick with fear , he did his DUTY and on 21 April of that bloody year he saved a young Wop May from death at the hands of MVR . When RB viewed MVR's body he did not celebrate or gloat, he said " He looks so small".
Capt. Roy Brown was the real "hero" if such a thing exists. He fought for his comrades and his country and took no pleasure in the killing of others.
It's time to put the myth of The Red Baron to rest , he was , after all, just a boy in his twenties who flew too low and didn't check his six .

[MikeW]

Well that's told everyone hasn't it!


I'm sure McNamara's views on Bishop are just as enlightening!!!

[Vin]

Conspiracy theory No 1
"It is a source of continual irritation to me that over eighty years after Von Richthofen was shot down by Roy Brown a handful of "experts" have initiated a campaign to discredit Capt. Brown and rewrite history"

Conspiracy theory No 2
"MVR was just to good a pilot to be shot down by some Canuck with a bad ulcer, right ? It had to be ground fire to support the myth of the Invincible Red Baron as perceived and fostered by a group of hero-worshippers"

The charge of revisionism is raised from time to time on this forum so conspiracy theory no 1 comes as no surprise. That's the first time I've seen conspiracy theory No 2, though.

[JG1Schorner]

McNamara: youa re right about one thing. He was too low and he almost certainly forgot to check his six. As for the rest ...

[NeilE]

Originally posted by McNamara@Jun 30 2004, 06:22 PM
[b] It is a source of continual irritation to me that over eighty years after Von Richthofen was shot down by Roy Brown a handful of "experts" have initiated a campaign to discredit Capt. Brown and rewrite history.
They have used trajectory analysis , ballistic tables computer animation and recalled the unofficial "testimony" of footsoldiers who allegedly witnessed this event. Capt. Brown was given official credit for the kill,he was there and he was an experienced combat pilot . His reports are concise and unvarnished . The "experts" produce all sorts of "theories" as to what happened and drive at the opinion that MVR was killed not by RB but by a single phantom bullet [which has mysteriously disappeared] fired by an Australian footsoldier. The grim truth to this fable is that these persons have bought into the "knights of the air" nonsense , which paints a picture of glorious combat fought by "gentlemen" in the romantic skies of WW 1 . Mick Mannock had a slightly different opinion of death in the skies as did most of those who actually faced violent death at the hands of enemy pilots . MVR was just to good a pilot to be shot down by some Canuck with a bad ulcer, right ? It had to be ground fire to support the myth of the Invincible Red Baron as perceived and fostered by a group of hero-worshippers . MVR killed perhaps eighty young men , sons , fathers , rogues and "gentlemen" . Was he proud of this bloody record ? Yes.
Roy Brown hated the killing and admitted to being sick with fear , he did his DUTY and on 21 April of that bloody year he saved a young Wop May from death at the hands of MVR . When RB viewed MVR's body he did not celebrate or gloat, he said " He looks so small".
Capt. Roy Brown was the real "hero" if such a thing exists. He fought for his comrades and his country and took no pleasure in the killing of others.
It's time to put the myth of The Red Baron to rest , he was , after all, just a boy in his twenties who flew too low and didn't check his six .

Hi All;

Interesting spin. However doesn't address the left/right Brown attack, bullet trajectory evidence, which is utterly conclusive regarding Brown's lack of a decisive role in the death of MVR. Also doesn't seem to recognise the missing bullet cuts both ways.

Though it was an Australian infantryman who shot him down, I think we have to recognise that Brown did play a role...I guess maybe Brown's attack may have provided the distraction necessary to compound MVR's already clouded judgement regarding what he was doing at the time....

All the best

Neil

PS Also ignores the fact that my grand-father's aunt's cat saw Billy Bishop and Arch Whitehouse hiding behind a turnip stack with a .303 waiting for MVR's inevitable stack...... :P

[Vin]

By the way, McNamara, welcome to the forum. Don't worry about us, we are all grizzlers and grouchers. MikeW is the grouchiest of the lot, followed closely by Neil. Attracting the attention of them is not a bad effort for your first post.