My WINGED VICTORY H/B Book prize if you can help?!

[ehrenpries]

One of the first 4 RNAS pilots in WW1 was

MAJOR E L GERRARD formerly of the Royal Marines Light Infantry.

I have a document I believe is signed by him but no example of his signature/autograph to compare it with.

First one to help with a scan, or reference for a sample of his signature (I have complete sets of C&C (USA) and (UK) and OTF so if you know where in that lot there is a sample the reference will be fine) will be rewarded with my HardBack copy of Yeates' WINGED VICTORY which appears to be very popular in another thread! If you already have a copy I will find something to say "thankyou".

Why a prize? Only way I could think of drawing attention to this otherwise pretty dry thread!!!!!!!!

Thanks Forumites

Ehrenpries

[ehrenpries]

Looks like no examples of Gerrards' signature leap to any forumites minds.
Ive been plodding through the C&C (USA), C&C (UK) and OTF but not having any luck yet. :'(

Aforumite is keen on my copy of Winged Victory so this mini-competition will close in a couple of days and if no luck with Gerrard my copy of WV will no doubt find a new home! 8)

Thanks to those :-/ who tried

Ehrenpries

[Laserlloyd]

I would think that his signature would be on a document somewhere in the RAF records building in England (opp’s I can't remember the facility name).

I know that there are some of us that could locate it for Ehrenpries that lives near by.

Lloyd...

[Darryl]

Name looks familiar. I'll see if I have it on any CiTARs. Wasn't he known as "Teddy" Gerrard?

Darryl

[Darryl]

Hello again,

Pro Bono

I thought the name didn't quite gell. E.L. Gerrard (Brigadier General E.L. Gerrard DSO) was his father! The pilot you are looking for is Thomas Francis Netterville Gerrard and he was, as I remembered, called "Teddy".

If you can get someone to go to the PRO (or whatever it is called nowadays), get them to pull out the SRB copy of the CiTAR for Stan Dallas (Flt Cmr R.S. Dallas) on the 5/4/17, Naval (1).

I have the copy from AIR1 1216 and it has Gerrard's name listed as one of the signatories...but that copy is unsigned. It is the original so hopefully the SRB carbon (if there is one??) will be signed. Other than that the only signed copy would have gone to "Wing". All of the CiTARs for Teddy are signed by Haskins..as seems to have been Squadron practice at that time. A very few are countersigned by the pilot...none of Gerrard's.

I suspect what you might have though is his Father's signature.

FYI, Teddy was killed playing polo in the 20's.

Sorry can't be more help.

Now, off for an hour's aerobatics.

regards

Darryl
*

[ehrenpries]

Thanks for the leads guys, very good of you.

Ive ploughed through all the copies of C&C (USA &UK) and OTF but although plenty of articles on RNAS pilots I couldnt find any on Gerrard.

Maybe I should produce one, as an article on thefirst 4 RNAS pilots and what happened to them would make an interesting article.

Maj E L Gerrard took part in the FIRST British Air Raid into Germany on 22/9/1914. He flew Aeroplane No 50 borrowed from Charles Samson !

I have a 2 page letter by Gerrard detailing this attack on the Airship sheds at Dusseldorf and Colonge and absolutely everything about it coincides with War in the Air, Flights and Fights etc. I found it in a 1916 copy of Naval Air Service Training Manual 1915 which is stamped 8/5/1916 Seaplane Station Dover.

The ONLY anomaly is that in the body of the typewritten letter, which has a lovely ink signature, refers to Gerrard as C L Gerrard instead of E L Gerrard.The signature shows his first initail (which should be an E) appearing like a large version of the 'e' in Gerrard. However to the casual observer the first initial could look like a 'C'.

The only explanation I can think of is that a typist /'scribe' typed the letter for Gerrad from Gerrards' hand written report and mistook the E for a C.Why Gerrard would sign it with that error in it is beyond me, unless time was at an essence.And why the scribe (if there was one ) didnt know the C.O.s initials is also very strange.

Was it usual for Officers to have their reports/letters/documents typed by someone else or did they generally do it themselves?

Once again EVERYTHING else about the document is 100% accurate so it is just abit frustrating with this one anomaly hanging over it !The letter concludes C.L Gerrard. (Major R.M.L.I.). then the ink signature.

I will follow up your leads and try and get a result!Only a sample to compare will clear it up completely.
Thanks again
Hope the 'aeros' were a delight! :
Cheers
Ehrenpries

[MikeW]

I would be very surprised if any officer in the first world war ever typed anything himself - ratings were employed with some sort of shorthand and typing skills and did all the office work.

Spelling mistakes such as you mention were rife, there was too much to do to go back and correct everything!

I looked through all my stuff, but couldn't find anything signed by Gerrard. Sorry.


Mike

[charles]

Royal Flying Corps pilots -and I presume RNAS as well-held FAI certificates, commonly called 'tickets.' In other words, you could ahve all the training and experience in the world but if you didn';t obtain your FAI ticket, you weren't going to be allowed to fly. Same with the Germans. Anyway, the trainee after passing his course would produce two likenesses and a couple of days later receive a little license book with photo glued in signed and so forth and they were required to sign the license, as well. You can see a couple of examples of these at The Aero Conservancy, a virtual museum on the web located at http://www.aeroconservancy.com.

You can write to RAF Museum Hendon outside London to request a copy as they have the second photo and I think their records have a copy of the pilot's signature - I might be wrong about this.

[MikeW]

Charley,

The RAF museum does not have all the certificates, at least one full album is missing, believed to be at the IWM.


mike

[Darryl]

Ehrenpries,

Sorry to give you a bum steer. The only place I can find reference to Gerrard, E.L. Maj (later W/Cmdr) is in RNAS Serials. What odds that the other guy's father would be E.L. as well!!!!

As to initials...happens all the time. Some of it is due to tired, overworked clerks...some due to Officers using a long standing "assumed" name, or their second name instead of their first.

Roderick Stanley Dallas is sometimes seen as S Dallas because he used "Stan" (not often at all in his case but others more so.) G.H. Haskins is often seen as K. Haskins....for what reason I have no clue.

So I wouldn't be too concerned about the variation.

Good luck with your search.

regards

Darryl

BTW, the aero's went well. My passenger even survived without throwing up!!