French sources for Menckhoff´s shooting-down and capture?

rammjaeger · 2 January 2005, 02:05 AM

Hi Forumites,

I am searching for French sources and reports of the shooting-down and capture of Carl [Karl] Menckhoff on 25 July 1918. I am also interested in reports of French or neutral papers about the incident.
I welcome every help!

(To avoid confusion: I know the success was credited to US-pilot Avery.)

VBR
Rammjaeger

charles · 4 January 2005, 03:43 AM

Do you have any photos of the wreckage? It was a D.VII, wasn't it? With a large M on the fuselage sides? The aircraft was souveniered, some small peices of fabric showing up in at least one auction over the years.

rammjaeger · 4 January 2005, 05:35 AM

Charley,

I don´t have a photograph of the wreck. I guess the French troops capturing M. would have liked to make a photograph but that was not easy to do. M. wrote he made a "Baumlandung" - that means he was landing on the top of the trees with his Fokker D. VII. According to M. the aircraft was hanging there in considerably height in the forrest. In M. s opinion it was impossible for the Frenchmen to salvage the aircraft as a whole but he could not observe what happened later.

M. reported nothing about the marking of his aircraft in my source but some French officers called him immediately "Menschkoff". M. was surprised to get this welcome with his (maimed) name and a French Major told him the French would report permanently about the markings of the more well-known German pilots with the intend to concentrate their fire on these pilots.

VBR
Rammjaeger

BTW a photograph of Jasta 72 aircraft displays two Fokker D.VII with the "M". I think both were flown by M.

charles · 4 January 2005, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rammjaeger

BTW a photograph of Jasta 72 aircraft displays two Fokker D.VII with the "M". I think both were flown by M.

Where can I see this photo? I am very interested in this.

Charley

rammjaeger · 5 January 2005, 01:46 AM

Nowhere.

I think the picture is unpublished until now but it will be part of a book which I hope to finish this year. I will try to scan the pic in low-res and to display it here. Hope I can remember how to do that.

VBR
Rammjaeger

rammjaeger · 5 January 2005, 08:20 AM

Charley,

I wasted some time because it is impossible for me to shrink the photograph down to the required low number of KBs for the attachment management.

Tell me your e-mail address for a direct contact.

VBR
Rammjaeger

Cigogne · 5 January 2005, 02:40 PM

Rammjaeger sent it to me to post for him.

Here it is.

rammjaeger · 5 January 2005, 02:54 PM

The original pic looks a bit different. I clipped the sky above and the legs of Menckhoff.

Enlarge the picture and look over M.s elbow with the dog.
A second aircraft with "M" is visible in the background!

Thanks Cigogne!

BTW my original question is still unanswered. Is really nobody able to give a hint?

charles · 5 January 2005, 05:11 PM

Rammjaeger,

In response, my email is charles@aeroconservancy.com, if you can send the higher resolution image, much appreciated.

Charley

5 January 2005, 07:03 PM

Over half his victories came from his time with Jagdstaffeln 72, until his reconnaissance mission above the Marne in which his machine was forced down he 'landed' in the tree canopy somewhere near Chateau Thierry or Castle Thierry as some call it.

I came across text supposedly from the Chicago Daily Tribune, 28 July 1918
written a United Press staff correspondent named Frank J. Taylor

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

YANKEE AIRMAN IN FIRST FLIGHT GETS BOCHE 'ACE'
Lt. Avery Forces Capt. Medhopf, 16 Victories, Down

WITH THE AMERICANS IN FRANCE, July 27.-- Lieut. Walter Avery of Columbus, O., in his first air battle, brought down the noted German ace, Capt. Mendkopf, north of Chateau Thierry yesterday.

HUN TAKES FALL
The rival aviators came together while patrolling alone. For twenty minutes Mendkopf made futile effort to gain an advantage by tricky maneuvers. Then Avery got on the German's tail and damaged the plane so that it was forced to land within the American lines.
When Medkopf learned this was Avery's initial fight he was enraged. He sulked and refused to talk. Mendkopf is credited with sixteen victims, including an American. He is one of only six German aviators who wear the cross of merit.

MADE A MISTAKE
Another American airman, after hearing of Avery's exploit, went out hunting on his hook this morning. He tackled a Boche and forced him down and landed to complete the capture. But he discovered that he was behind the German lines and he himself was made a prisoner.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++

This Avery victim seems Oberleutnant (not Captain)

Karl Menckhoff, brought down on the 25th. Why they thought he had 16 instead of 39 who knows - the press is usually off anyway, eh?

You may be able to chase archive newspapers, esp. in that area of France.
Or use Jasta 72 or C. Thierry as the focus of your search too. I don't know if M flew solo on that recon. Is there a good resource for Jasta 72 flight reports? I'm not sure M's plane wasn't so high stuck in the trees that it could really have been salvaged. Maybe pieces of it are still there...

I'll see if I can come upon anything else.