Why couldn't he recover?

[TomVrille]

For whatever it's worth, Oswald Boelcke had the following remarks:
"Immelmann lost his life through a foolish accident. Everything the papers write about a battle in the air is nonsense. A part of his propeller broke off and, due to the jerk, the wire braces of the fuselage snapped. The fuselage then broke off." - from An Aviators Field Book

[rammjaeger]

>>If he did indeed shoot his propeller, why didn't he do what he did before, turn the engine off and perform a dead stick landing?<<

I did read at least 8 different "explanations" about MI´s death in German papers from 1916. Currently I consider three possibilities: FE2b, malfunction of the MG synchronisation or hit by the German Flak. It seems to be impossible to finally "prove" one version without a discovery of unknown sources or photographs.

I think some lines in one of Normans Franks books are responsible for the widespread (wrong) believe that every malfunction of the synchronisation could be survived by simply turning off the engine and gliding down.
Immelmann did so and and survived on 31 May 1916.
The text in "Immelmann der Adler von Lille" (German edition page 174/175) illustrates also why he could succeed and survive on this day. According to the report in this book he could regain control over the plane in only 500 m altitude and land near the street Cambrai-Douai on 31 May 1916!
An only slightely different situation (bigger damage, lower flight altitude etc) could inevitably result in a fatal crash. Just that happened on his last day (if not the Britons or the own Flak downed him) - compare page 181/182 of the book.

BTW can anybody give a statement about the quality of the translation into English language of the above mentioned book?

VBR
Rammjaeger

[Ritter von Fear]

Is it known roughly what soft of altitude he was before the crash? Looking at the photographs from the crash he hit the ground from a great height and possibly in a dive?

It is hard to see in the photographs if the wings are even on the aircraft because they have ever smashed into pieces when he aircraft crashed or broken off and landed somewhere else.

It might be me, but it looks like the aircraft got a bit burned (at least on some of the photographs but this might be the earth).

Are there any parts of his aircraft in any museums?

Unfortunately I have not read the book by his brother, though I would like to get a copy.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Ritter von Fear

If these engine vibrations were the main contributor to the crash, it seems strange that the engine and front of the aircraft were not ripped off as opposed to the tail plane. In the photos the only missing parts of the aircraft, seem to have been the tail plane and wings (which were presumably smashed on impact with the ground).

Yeah you'd think so (well I did, too) but on further reflection, it makes sense if you regard the plane hanging off the engine rather than the engine hanging off the plane.

A one blade prop shaking away at the front end. Whole aircraft is subject to vibrations. The plane will break if, when and where the load imposed by the vibration exceeds the limit of the material used. The engine is bolted down, and is unlikely to sheer through those metal bolts through vibration alone. So it won't immediately detatch itself from the airframe.

But as the vibrations are carried along the fuselage (down the longerons), they will also be subject to load. By design the tail assembly resists deflection along the longitudinal axis (ie it keeps the plane flying straight). Designers used the extra leverage of a long tail to improve longitudinal stability. In this case, that leverage might provide enough mechanical advantage to snap the longerons towards the end of the cantilever.

I can see the shaking hit a harmonic point somewhere along that cantilever and shake the end of it - the tail section - to pieces. Ever seen the film of "Leapin' Lena" (the Tacoma Narrows bridge) vibrating itself to pieces? Same kind of thing.

Just a thought.

Rammjaeger-
First, I have to admit that I do not read German. The English version of the book by Franz Immelmann, der Adler von Lille was quite easy to read- I hated to put it down! Unfortunately, I have not done much other reading on Max, so what I know of his final encounter comes almost solely from Franz's account. How much was fact and how much was propaganda I can't say either. There have been some pretty good theories put forth here as well. In addition, there is supposed to be someone "out there" who has the Wartime correspondence of Immelmann, his family and the authorities. I guess over the years they have threatened to set all these questions straight but historians and enthusiasts are still waiting.... HF

[rammjaeger]

Ritter von Fear, (BTW niece name )

MI came down from more than 2000, maybe 2500 meters.

One report says he lost one wing another says both wings "folded".

I have never heard about any "surviving" parts of his last airplane despite I could imagine that pieces of the wreck were transfered from the storage in the shed back to Germany.

VBR
Rammjaeger

[Cigogne]

The wreckage photos show:

1. The propeller blade was clearly shot off. The break came exactly at the line of fire. The blade sheared off and engine nearly tore itself out of it's mount.

2. The rear fuselage tubing is pinched indicating that the forces of the unbalanced engine mass were strong enough to stress and break away the rear fuselage.

3. The crash scene photos that I have seen do not show the tail section among the main wreckage w/ front fuselage, engine, etc. It is seen being transported separately in the rear of an automobile... and relatively intact.

No tail section... no control.

[Taz]

Especially possible since Fokker fuselages were made with progressively smaller sections of steel tubing inserted into the larger forward tubing and welded at the junction. It is easy to see how the violent and assymetrical shaking could have broken the entire tail section off at those weld joints. Even more plausible if one or two of the joints were marginal welds. Faulty workmanship plagued Fokker during most of the war. At the point where the tail separates, you are just riding. It is possible combat damage took out the synchronizer, but the propoganda mechanism had to find a reason for which Immelmann could be found blameless. He probably was.

Taz

Cigogne-
Great details on Immelmann's wreckage! Do you recall where you saw these photos? I would love to take a look if they are out there somewhere....

History Fan

[Ritter von Fear]

Originally Posted by rammjaeger

Ritter von Fear, (BTW niece name )

MI came down from more than 2000, maybe 2500 meters.

One report says he lost one wing another says both wings "folded".

I have never heard about any "surviving" parts of his last airplane despite I could imagine that pieces of the wreck were transfered from the storage in the shed back to Germany.

VBR
Rammjaeger

Thank you Sir.

I have never read any of these reports and assumed that the wings were simply broken upon impact.

I might be wrong but it looks like the wreck had been burned (at least in some of the photo's - though it might be dirt/earth). Is it know if the aircraft caught on fire upon hitting the ground? There is very little fabric left on the airframe which could suggest it burned off.

If indeed he lost the wings as well as the tail plane, it's safe to say he was doomed, especialy from 2000 meters.

Was Max found inside the wreckage? one book I read suggests that when the aircraft broke up, Max 'fell to his death'.