British Seaplane Downed 1916 Palestine?

The Saxon Flak officer was Leonce (no kidding!) Herbert Schumann of FAR 78--

Lt 25.1.06 vorp. 15.7.04, Oberlt 19.3.13 Hptm 17.3.15 char. Major aD 20.4.20

My hero Erhard Roth shows him as in FAR 78 until March 1916, when he went to an unspecified Auto-Abwehr-Geschütze unit, and ended the war (no more exact dates) as Kdr. Flak der Heeresgruppe Mackensen-- no mention of Palestine 1918.

Yet since he listed himself as of Wurzen in 1930, I think you are riught, and this Saxon WAS the Palestine Flak CO.

[Soderbaum]

Great information Rick and one more Hauptleute positively identified...

Does Roth or any of the Ehrenranglisten mention Schumanns date of birth, as this kind information is of x-tra high value...?

I have briefly looked through my unit lists and saw that Flakzug 133 did shot down a enemy two-seater on 5 Mar 17. The crew was reported taken POWs. Probably this was a British or an Australian a/c....anyone knews...?

I have however "huge" problems with Flakzug 28. This was a rather successful Saxon unit which I have on the Western front nearly the entire War...!?
Could it be a typo in Schumanns notes...??

A possible alternative unit, might have been K-Flakzug 28...regarding this unit I have nearly nil information, and the little I have "place" it also on the Western front..??


Gunnar

The only period source for Saxon officers birth data I know about is for recipients of the Saint Henry Order, which includes birthdate and place with the citations for their winning deed. Schumann was singularly under-decorated by Saxony, so no such luck. I have a number of other ways to sometimes get around that-- if the officer made General in WW2, or was listed in the 1935 "Wer Ist's?" or was an SS officer and so on, but Schumann seems to have slipped off into obscurity.

Bavarian regular officers show their birth YEAR in Rank Lists. Württemberg regular officers (AND Prussian regulars assigned temporarily in Wtbg units) show FULL birth dates AND places (!) in their kingdom's Militärhandbücher (NOT in the joint Prussian-Württemberg Rank Lists). ALL naval officers show full birthdate in their Honor Rank List.

Schumann was very definite about his units' designations. The Palestine FZ 28 was an "orphan," no officers, no guns, used as a replacement "pool" (though those "waters" cannot have been very deep with no more than 20 enlisted men available ), so perhaps simply a goof and there were TWO far apart platoons accidentally numbered the same thing. He doesn't specify any "nationality" on any of the Flakzüge, and I only know which ones were Bavarian (and their types of guns) from "Das Bayernbuch," which lists that information.

[Soderbaum]

Hi again

I did checked up some monthly Kogenluft statistic to possible find further information about the two victories supposedly made by Flakzug 136 during 1918.
I dont have the "broken down" material for all months during 1918, and as the statistic was made about a week after the laste date in a month, the material from Heeregruppe F (Palestina) is not always completely updated...

However, one victory was reported by Flak in Palestina during Aug 1918. I could not find more information in the Nachrichtenblätter...
Anyone knew about any possible allied losses through AA/Flak this month...??


Gunnar

Fascinating to hear about my grandfather Alfred James Nightingale .Mattyboy is right to say that he did not die of his injuries and appeared in The Road the En-dor.He is also mentioned in The Spook and the Commandant by C.W,Hill.
Ronald John Saunders

[MattyBoy]

Hi Ronald,

Nightingale is also mentioned in the book 'Fights and Flights' by C.R. Samson.
He was a member of Ben-my-Chree in September 1916.

Samson notes: 'A' Flight, which had started at the same time as we had, flew to the north-east of El Arish and observed for one round from a monitor. They were then attacked by an aeroplane, which, getting between Bankes-Price and England, shot Bankes-Price down in flames.
Nightingale immediately engaged the German; but the latter flew rings round him, being immensely faster and far handier. Nightingale put up a stubborn fight; but he was soon forced to alight on the water with his petrol tank riddled wqith holes. It was only by the mercy of God he didn't get on fire.'

This was on 17th September 1916.
Rgds,
Matt.

[PFFF]

See "Over the Front" magazine
Volume 13
Number 1
Spring 1998