Researching French Aviators

farcwarts · 9 July 2005, 05:28 AM

Is there a website where the names of French aviators can be researched? I obtained a number of items from a French pilot including his id bracelet and have done a basic search using Yahoo and Google. Seems I need to find a site that is more specific to WWI French aviators. He was not an ace so his name would not be prominent in any of the publications that I can think of. Any help would be great. Thanks

farcwarts · 9 July 2005, 05:46 AM

This website is incredible. By reading old threads, I found the following website: http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/. I entered in the name Armand Picard and found him right away under the aviation section. It has a photo of his duty card but it is in French (to be expected) and in pencil, making it very light. I did print it out but sure could use a bit of help from someone out there whose French translation skills are better than mine. If someone could go to the webpage and type in Armand Picard and then tell me what it says next to the regiment and any other pertinent information, I would be very appreciative.

9 July 2005, 07:06 AM

Hi Farc,

My French isn't that great so the best I could come up with is the following:

Armand Picard:
Born in Villefollet. Son of Constance and Louise Ellenore Picard.
Served on Active Duty in Army from April 18 1902 to April 18 1905.
Was called back into service of Aug 12, 1916.
Assigned to Aviation Unit 3rd Regiment, 3rd or 5th (something I can't make out) at Rochefort.
No Citations or decorations listed but neither does Fonck or Guynemer so these cards were not well kept up or obviously not primary records.

Married to Marie Faloy or Saloy?? of Villefollet and she is the contact person in case of accident.

Civilian Occupation: Trading or Trader
Military Occ: Tractor Conductor (whatever that was) I have seen pilots listed as Pilot, Nieuport, etc.

The following is sketchy for me due to my poor french:
Relieved from 3rd Group, 3rd Aviation on April 26, "17. ???
Posted to (something) No. 9 (l.9.l No 22228 on April 26 '17) ???

Sorry but that's the best I can do. Hopefully somone can clarify further.

Jasta

jempie · 9 July 2005, 09:23 AM

Hi!

A list of cicil and licensed aviators pre-WWI and WWI is to find on the website of "Dans le ciel de Touraine"

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/aeroplanedetouraine/index.htm

However not your "Armand Picard" to find on it!
There were three Picard's pre-WWI aviators and during WWI none seems to have got from these a military aviators license!

Tractor Conductor ?

He seems me to have been member of the "aviation ground crew personnel" !
Perhaps with a motorised tractor pulling the planes over the field and into/out of hangars?
Rochefort and La Rochelle were also French homebases for airships!

VBr

Jempie

jempie · 9 July 2005, 09:42 AM

Hi!

That card mentions indeed "3rd Regiment of Infantry" and further Rochefort- sur-mer...But 1917 he seems to have moved to or "Pau" or a "parc"..
It's not quite clear indeed!

But there was indeed at Rochefort-sur-mer also an airship station...
Don't rmemmber anymore if it was also Rochefort-Le Paliseuil or
La Rochelle-Le Paliseul...(there is a website on it!) there must have been at least 2 different airship stations in this region!

VBR

Jempie

However Rochefor-sur-mer....was indeed also airship base and "conducteur tracteur" could be a tractor driver but eventually a "van-driver"?

"Merchant" is indeed a "trader" (or eventually "a shop owner").

Didier Lecoq · 9 July 2005, 01:40 PM

Bonsoir,
I have no more informations about pre-war pilots who named Picard. The second in the list, Gaetane, is a woman.
Do you have some information about Armand Picard ? In mémoire des hommes, there are 51 Picard who were aviators (in air force but not only pilots). Are you sure about his name and first name ?
à bientôt
Didier Lecoq
aeroplane de touraine

farcwarts · 9 July 2005, 05:48 PM

Thanks to everyone for jumping in so quickly with research on this individual. Go to ebay item 6537599511 to see the entire set. The front of the identification tag reads " Picard" across the top, "Armand" in the middle and "1905" on the bottom. On the back side it reads "Siene" on the top, "3 Buruea" in the middle and "3522" on the bottom. The items that came with the tag are fairly visible in the photos. When it comes to ebay and WWI items, the issue of authenticity is always a worry. I believe the German Observer's badge to be a copy based on the narrow pin back. It is a very thin stamped metal that is not metallic. The engine instrument has 7-42 across the top of it so I am assuming that the collection did not include all authentic WWI items (I am guessing that 7-42 is the date). The name identification tag appears authentic as does the helmet, goggles and the two medals. I have inspected them under very high power magnification and they look OK to me. The measuring tool also shows signs of authentic age. But since I have opened up the door on this whole collection, feel free to weigh in. Thanks again.

GrandSon · 10 July 2005, 01:54 AM

Hi guys,

First of all a little clarification. The Mémoire de Hommes website is an official website of the French Army, it contains scans of index cards of people who served in the aeronautics in WWI. One day they intend to post similar cards of all french dead in WWI.

The individual files are stored at the Fort de Vincennes. One can have access if you have family ties and 120 years after the guy's birth. Otherwise an librarian can browse for you and show you non-sensitive pieces.

Now, Armand Picard:

1st Class (i.e. plain soldier)

Born March 29 1881 in Villefollet, department of Deux-Sèvres, canton of Brioux (see map)

http://www.viamichelin.fr/viamicheli...x=0&image2.y=0

Son of Pierre Constant and Louise Eléonore Picard.
Served on Active Duty in Army from April 18 1902 to April 18 1905.
(normal 2 years military service. the 1905 date on the tag matches from the day he finished his military service)

Was called back into service of Aug 12, 1914.
Before aviation served in the 3rd regiment of colonial infantry based at Rochefort sur Mer.

Drafted in 1901 at Poitiers in the territorial army under nr 134

No Citations or decorations listed.

Married to Renée Saloy of Villefollet and she is the contact person in case of accident.

Civilian Occupation: Shop owner
Military Occ: Conducteur de Tracteur (i.e. driver)

The following is sketchy for me due to my poor french:
Relieved from 3rd Aviation Group on April 24 1917

(I can't figure where he left to on April 27 1917 but for sure it is followng orders No 22226 dated April 24 1917. I assume he left aviation at that date)

By the way there are no Picard in Villefollet or around today. If you write to the Mairie de Villefollet, Service de l'Etat Civil 79170 Villefollet, France you maybe able to persuade them to send you a copy (for free) of his birth certificate, which will for sure indicate whether he had children and when/where he died.

GrandSon

Didier Lecoq · 10 July 2005, 02:26 AM

Hello,
the postcard with german planes is the 33rd victory of Guynemer (1917, march 16) near Hoéville (Roland DII, pilot Dow).
Research goes on
Didier
PS I mean that Armand Picard on Mémoires des hommes is not the right man.

farcwarts · 10 July 2005, 06:07 AM

Once again, I wish to thank folks for helping out. This Forum is fantastic for finding out valuable information. It is appearing to me that Armand Picard may not have been a pilot at any time in World War I, but that he was in an aviation unit. That said, the items that came with the ebay sale, I am now at a point of just wanting to know if they are real. The postcards show genuine age and there is a 1912 postmark on one of them (not the German fighter plane that was shot down) so I assume they are OK. What are the opinions on the helmet and goggles? There is patina and an old musty smell to both. The medals also have what looks like genuine patina of age. As for the measuring tool, it is quite old in appearance. Can anyone identify what it is? There is a very old string attached to the tool. I had assumed it to be a map measuring tool. At this point, I am primarily concerned as to the authenticity of the hat and goggles, but again, whoever can weigh in on particular items, please do so. If the ebay pictures are not sufficiently clear, I can take other pictures just let me know. Many thanks again to all.