Most Tank Kills

Hi,
Read Udet biography. There's describtion in on of the chapters how Udet destroyed the tank. I recommend it to you.

[Ross_Moorhouse]

The armor on a British MIV was 6 - 12mm. Could a round from a 7.92 mm machine gun penerate this?

No it can't. For exmple Udet destryed it from below!!! He got the tank into inverted position, so the tank layed on its back.

[Pips]

Concerning Greim's 'tank kill', the following is an extract from Alex Imrie's German Fighter Units 1917-1918, an Osprey/ Airwar 17 publication.

Quote
"On 23 August 1918 Greim led his pilots on an offensive patrol. Vizefeldwebel Putz, working with his commanding officer, circled over the battle area at a height of 500 metres and saw two tanks advancing amid smoke and shel bursts. The two pilots attacked the metal monsters, especially since their machine guns held Panzer-Munition (armour piecing) as well as ordinary ball, tracer and phosphorous rounds. greim made his first attack, ainig at the side of the tank. Putz followed suit, attacking the other tank in the same manner.Initially Greim only usd the machine gun that was belted with armour piecing rounds, then at close range brought the other gun into use as well. However the tanks continued on their way undistrubed by the aerial assault.

Greim then decided to attack from directly above, and in a few minutes both he and Putz had climbed to 500 metres. They throttled back and made vertical dives on the tanks, firing both guns. These attacks continued to very close range and the aircraft pulled out ony just over the tanks. Greim realised that he had not been shot at in his dive, and only noticed afterwards that the tanks had stopped. Putz's tank had also stopped. Suspiciously the pilots watched the stationery monsters for some time, but there wa no sign of life and theu flew bakc to their aerodrome at Foucaucourt. Shortly after they landed they received a report from the front line vis Grufl 14 that confirmed their success."

[TomVrille]

Udet's account of his tank attack in Mein Fliegerleben is detailed, and sounds highly credible. The tank was proceeding along a railway berm some four metres high. This enabled Udet to attack from the side at low level. He made five separate passes, alternating sides, before noticing any effects. At this point, the tank strayed towards the edge of the berm. Udet interpreted this move as an attempt to take cover in the smoke screen deployed ahead of the tank formation, but it could well be that the driver of the the tank had been wounded by spalling fragments, and could not hold his line down the tracks. The tank lurched over the embankment, and turned turtle, exposing the vehicle's lightly armored underbelly to continued attacks. One tank crewman stumbled out through a side hatch, apparently the victim of shrapnel wounds to the face. His ammunition expended, Udet went back to a forward airstrip to reload. He later returned to the scene of the tank attack, and found that the tank had not moved. Now three crewmen were laid out in the grass alongside the tank, apparently having been examined and declared dead by British medical personnel.

[NeilE]

Are there locations and dates for Udet's 'kill' and also locations for Greim and Putz attacks?

I'm thinking of checking these accounts against Tank Corp records (if possible)

Cheers

Neil

[TomVrille]

Originally Posted by Neil_E

Are there locations and dates for Udet's 'kill' and also locations for Greim and Putz attacks?

Neil

Udet's tank kill was on the Bapaume-Arras railway line, at some point where the tracks were elevated roughly four metres above the surrounding flat, grassy plain. The date of the attack is not stated specifically, but by reviewing the chronology of other known encounters, it appears that the attack took place in the early morning hours of 12 August, 1918.

Good luck with the tank records!!

[retread]

For those who aren't already aware ( which until very recently included myself) I post the following;
The French, British and German air-services all used armor-piercing bullets." Balle Perforante", AP, and "Spitzmunition mit Kern" respectively. Basically they were the typical lead projectile fitted with a steel core. As far as the air-services are concerned apparently the Germans and French started the use of this type ammunition at approximately the same time during 1916. The Brits slightly later. This ammunition was supposedly able to penetrate 10mm of armor at short range. What was considered short range I don't know, I would think less than 200 yds. Perhaps much less.
What I am still unsure of is whether AP rounds were developed during or prior to the First World War. It is certainly not out of the question that this type of round may have been developed originally for the use of the air-services.
The information above is from "Flying Guns World War 1" , Anthony Williams and Dr. Emmanuel Gustin.

[Roadhog]

Dear Retread, Weren't these armor piercing rounds extremely hard on machine gun barrels? I know they play hell on modern barrels as well.

Did they feed the same as regular ammo or were there even more jamming problems with the plane's machine guns? These conversations make the Forum such as gold mine for people like me. Thanks again. VR, Roadhog "Memento mori."

[retread]

Roadhog,
Right you are, this type round did wear down barrels rapidly. Whether or not they were more, or for that matter less, prone to jamming I can't say.