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1 November 2005, 07:20 PM
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#1 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Joad homestead north of Abilene, Kansas.
Posts: 965
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How Many German Jews decorated For Heroism?
Good evening ladies and gentlemen. I am continuing with my research for my WW I novel, The Wraithes of Flanders and need to know some more answers regarding Jewish soldiers serving in Kaiser Bill's Army. One of my book's main characters will be a Saxon Jew and I am using Amos Elon's book, The Pity of It All as a main source of information regarding jewish soldiers in the World War I German Armed Forces.
He says that over 12,000 Jews died in the ranks of the German Army during the Great War and that by the end of 1916, over 3,000 had been decorated for heroism. Would anybody know the total decorated by December of 1917 and at the end of the war? A number that I have always heard kicked around but never documented was that 5,000 Jews were decorated for bravery from 1914-1918.
Any help will be greatly appreciated. VR, Roadhog "Memento mori."
Last edited by Roadhog; 1 November 2005 at 07:22 PM.
Reason: grammar
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2 November 2005, 04:34 AM
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#2 (permalink)
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,442
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Roadhog,
in general the "modern sources" use the old data of Segall, Theilhaber or numbers from statistics of the "Reichsbund jüdischer Frontkämpfer" - without any add-ons or own research.
I think neither 3000 nor 5000 is high enough because there were 85 000 Jewish "Frontkämpfer"!
We are simply not able to find out correct numbers because that would require an absolute overview about all awards and about the religion of every holder of any award.
I think a good impression gives a German hompage dealing with the
"Kartell-Convent der Tendenzverbindungen deutscher Studenten jüdischen Glaubens ..."
There were 1325 German students of Jewish religion counted in the K.C. after EOW in 1918. 1119 [= 84%] of this number participated in combat.
68 [= 6% of the 1119 fighters] got EK I and 538 [= 48%] got EK II. As well 222 other awards are known for these man. I assume this overview is incomplete like so many others.
Note this is only the number of Jewish students in this specific organisation.
How many of the other ca 83 881 (= 85 000 - 1119) Jews got awards too?
Students are more likely to get awards and promotions than people with average education but nevertheless you can expect many more awards.
VBR
Rammjaeger
Last edited by rammjaeger; 2 November 2005 at 04:42 AM.
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2 November 2005, 12:56 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Two-seater Pilot
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Formerly London, now Kent
Posts: 146
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German-Jews in WW1.
Hi Roadhog.
According to "Hitler's Jewish Soldiers", p.72; by Bryan Rigg:
Quote:
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"About 10,000 volunteered for duty, and over 100,000 out of a total German-Jewish population of 550,000 served during World War One. Some 78% saw frontline duty, 12,000 died in battle, over 30,000 received decorations, and 19,000 were promoted. Approximately 2,000 Jews became millitary officers and 1,200 became medical officers". *
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* In addition he quotes Ian Kershaw as writing that after the 1916 Judenzahlung (Jewish Census), the Prussian army stopped promoting Jews as officers. [ "Hitler 1889-1935", p.100].
Mike.
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2 November 2005, 03:51 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 357
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This is anecdotal, but my grandfather told me that some of the highest decorated members of his regiment, 5. Garde Regiment zu Fuss, were Jews and that they perished during the Nazi era.
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3 November 2005, 02:12 PM
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#5 (permalink)
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Guest
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I printed an autobiography for an Austrian Jew who served in the Kaiser's army. He came into the shop with his daughter carrying the manuscripts. He was I believe a corporal or sergeant in the German rendition of our Service and Supply. His last name was Pick. His first name I don't remember. It was quite an interesting story. I should have kept a copy of it.
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7 November 2005, 11:59 AM
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#6 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Joad homestead north of Abilene, Kansas.
Posts: 965
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German Jewish Heroes
Thank-you for your help gentlemen. According to the book I am using as a reference, The Pity of It All written by Amos Elon in 2002 on page 338 the following data is submitted:
In October 1916, when almost three thousand Jews had already died on the battlefield and more than seven thousand had been decorated, War Minister Wild von Hohenborn saw fit to sanction the growing prejudices. He ordered a "Jew census" in the army to determine the actual number of Jews on the front lines as opposed to those serving in the rear. Ignoring protests in the Reichstag and the press, he proceeded with his head count. The results were not made public, ostensibly to "spare Jewish feelings." The truth was that the census disproved the accusations: 80 percent served on the front lines.
In his endnotes the author cites the following sources for his numbers: R. Vogel: Ein Stuck von Uns: Deutsche Juden in deutschen Armeen, 1813-1976, Mainz, 1977, p.149 and Leo Baeck Institue Yearbook 19 (1974): p.143.
Elon's book was published by Metropolitan Books in NYC in 2002. VR, Roadhog "Memento mori."
Last edited by Roadhog; 7 November 2005 at 10:44 PM.
Reason: punctuation
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7 November 2005, 12:22 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Guest
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Wilhelm Frankl
Gentlemen,
Of course most of you knew that Leutnant Wilhelm Frankl as far as I know was the only German Jewish airman to win the Pour le Merite. He scored 20 air to air victories as a fighter pilot. I don't know if there were any German Jews that won the Pour le Merite as ground soldiers.
Sincerely,
Edward
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9 November 2005, 11:13 AM
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#8 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Joad homestead north of Abilene, Kansas.
Posts: 965
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A Good Short Bio of Frankl
Thanks Edward. Does anybody know where I could get my hands on a good short bio of Frankl? Especially since my novel's Jewish pilot would surely have been aware of him in 1917 and 1918. You all have been great. Thanks again, Roadhog "Memento mori."
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9 November 2005, 11:49 AM
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#9 (permalink)
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 2,843
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Roadhog
Does anybody know where I could get my hands on a good short bio of Frankl?
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There was a 'phamplet' called something like 'The Jew With the Blue Max', written by (I think) Heinz Nowarra and published back in the 1960's. It's short, but with lots of photos, and is probably the best you'll find. FWIW. R.
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10 November 2005, 07:43 AM
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#10 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 782
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reply
In a book on Hitler and Germany there is reproduced a post World War I handbill Which reported that 12,000 Jews died. (For Reference only(.p.36 of Frederic V, Grunfield "The Hitler File").
Online see "Germany's Jewish Knights of the Air" for Jewish Airmen (German Ser)
http://people.sinclair.edu/thomasmartin/knights/
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