Jacobs prefered triplane?

I am trying to ascertain which Fokker Dr I was the preferred mount for Ltn Jacobs towards the end of September-beginning of October and thus which one was destroyed on 3/10/18. In my opinion this changed from being 450/17 in the early months May-June to 470/17 later on possibly due to availability of Camel engines and fatigue/battle damage. The convention is that 450/17 was his aircraft of choice and that 470/17 was his reserve. I have some problems with this and they are as follows;

i) Why do Jacobs’s combat reports post 3/10/18 all describe his plane as ‘Black aircraft with devil’s head on both sides.’ which is the recorded look for 450/17. It has been stated that this was because 470/17 was repainted, but I can find no hard evidence for this.
ii) Most of the later photographs of Jacobs’s i.e. post collection of PLM show him with a aircraft matching the description of 470/17, and thus indicating that it was used more frequently at this period.

There are some anomalies between the translation of the Jacobs diary from C&C 6/4 winter1965 and C&C int. 25/3 1994 for the day 15/09/18.

"During the morning patrol, I had to abort with triplane 450/17, so I took the provisional triplane…" Puglisi
Or
"During my first flight I had trouble with my aircraft. Then I took another triplane…" Lawson

Does the earlier William Puglisi article reflect acritatly the Jacobs diary and clearly state the use of 450/17 for the morning patrol or is the Stephen Lawson later translation more faithful to the original?

Answering this small problem will I think give a clue as to Jacobs preferred mount at this time. The Puglisi article indicates that the following planes were flown at these times:

15/9 AM Fokker Dr I 450/17 ‘Black aircraft with devil’s head on both sides of fuselage behind the pilots seat. White rudder.’ Suffered trouble.
15/9 PM 16:40-17:05 Fokker Dr I 470/17 ‘Black aircraft with black crosses surrounded with white on both sides of fuselage behind pilots seat. White rudder.’ Engine trouble magneto broken & motor quit.
15/9 PM 18:15-19:20 Fokker Dr I 470/17 ‘Black aircraft with black crosses surrounded with white on both sides of fuselage behind pilots seat. White rudder.’ Victory scored.

It seems improbable to me that his mechanics would rush an engine change on 470/17 and have it fixed so that in barley, over an hour after he landed, he could be airborne again, in time to shoot down his 26 victory, as reported in the surviving combat report. It is far more likely that 470/17 was his preferred aircraft and that it was this that had suffered trouble in the morning and that 450/17 was the triplane that had magneto failure on the second patrol. Triplane 470/17 would have had sufficient time to be repaired, before resuming action in the late evening patrol. My version of events are as follows:

15/9 AM Fokker Dr I 470/17 ‘Black aircraft with black crosses surrounded with white on both sides of fuselage behind pilots seat. White rudder.’ Suffered trouble.
15/9 PM 16:40-17:05 Fokker Dr I 450/17 ‘Black aircraft with devil’s head on both sides of fuselage behind the pilots seat. White rudder.’ Engine trouble magneto broken & motor quit.
15/9 PM 18:15-19:20 Fokker Dr I 470/17 ‘Black aircraft with black crosses surrounded with white on both sides of fuselage behind pilots seat. White rudder.’ Victory scored.
Any additional information would be welcomed.

Yours
Stuart

[StephenLawson]

I am trying to ascertain which Fokker Dr I was the preferred mount for Ltn Jacobs towards the end of September-beginning of October and thus which one was destroyed on 3/10/18. In my opinion this changed from being 450/17 in the early months May-June to 470/17 later on possibly due to availability of Camel engines and fatigue/battle damage. The convention is that 450/17 was his aircraft of choice and that 470/17 was his reserve. I have some problems with this and they are as follows;

See Cross & Cockade Int. Vol.29 #2 1998 “Sketches and Descriptions-Kobes”

*i) Why do Jacobs’s combat reports post 3/10/18 all describe his plane as ‘Black aircraft with devil’s head on both sides.’ which is the recorded look for 450/17. It has been stated that this was because 470/17 was repainted, but I can find no hard evidence for this.
ii) Most of the later photographs of Jacobs’s i.e. post collection of PLM show him with a aircraft matching the description of 470/17, and thus indicating that it was used more frequently at this period.

450/17 was destroyed on 10.3.18. *470/17 became primary mount. I have recently learned of a 'used' Fok. D.VII that was to be assigned to him. I also have found a request by Jacobs to have a Pfa. D.VIII detailed to Jasta 7 for familarization. It never went much beyond the Grufl evidently. Concerning the photos, its not a good indication. When you say '...most of the photos we have seen...' understand this is not a good representation of what exists. There are many aviation photos from his albums that we have yet to see published. Some were stolen from Jacobs album before they got to Neal O'Connor when he purchased them. But that is another story.

There are some anomalies between the translation of the Jacobs diary from C&C 6/4 winter1965 and C&C int. 25/3 1994 for the day 15/09/18."During the morning patrol, I had to abort with triplane 450/17, so I took the provisional triplane…" Puglisi
Or
"During my first flight I had trouble with my aircraft. Then I took another triplane…" Lawson

Remember also that Puglisi had Jacobs alive at the time to discuss these statements. There are documents that exist from Jacobs done in the early 1960's to Puglisi. Often when discussing the past with interviewers Jacobs would bring his diary to 'refresh his memory.' *My editing attempted to keep to the diary. Only in a few cases did I include the postwar recollections of Jacobs. *Most of this was done to fill in the last months of the war. Especially the loss of 450/17. *

Does the earlier William Puglisi article reflect acritatly the Jacobs diary and clearly state the use of 450/17 for the morning patrol or is the Stephen Lawson later translation more faithful to the original?

For 15.9.18. the information on 470/17 is based on an existing combat report. In my opinion 450/17 was always considered as his primary mount and was the machine lost on 10.3.18. The reserve 470/17 had the 'god of the north wind' applied post Oct. 3, 1918. *It retained the open ended crosses. It may have also had a replacement top wing not yet overpainted at this time. The details of the 'Lucas' (morning attack) came from Puglisi's notes on Jacobs notes. Check the bibliography.

[StephenLawson]

Answering this small problem will I think give a clue as to Jacobs preferred mount at this time. The Puglisi article indicates that the following planes were flown at these times:
15/9 AM Fokker Dr I 450/17 ‘Black aircraft with devil’s head on both sides of fuselage behind the pilots seat. White rudder.’ Suffered trouble.
15/9 PM 16:40-17:05 Fokker Dr I 470/17 ‘Black aircraft with black crosses surrounded with white on both sides of fuselage behind pilots seat. White rudder.’ Engine trouble magneto broken & motor quit.
15/9 PM 18:15-19:20 Fokker Dr I 470/17 ‘Black aircraft with black crosses surrounded with white on both sides of fuselage behind pilots seat. White rudder.’ Victory scored.

See Cross & Cockade Int. Vol. 29 #2 1998 “Sketches and Descriptions-Kobes”

It seems improbable to me that his mechanics would rush an engine change on 470/17 and have it fixed so that in barley, over an hour after he landed, he could be airborne again, in time to shoot down his 26 victory, as reported in the surviving combat report. It is far more likely that 470/17 was his preferred aircraft and that it was this that had suffered trouble in the morning and that 450/17 was the triplane that had magneto failure on the second patrol. Triplane 470/17 would have had sufficient time to be repaired, before resuming action in the late evening patrol. My version of events are as follows:...Any additional information would be welcomed. Yours Stuart

barley, ok I'll try not to poke fun here. Your versions? See; See Cross & Cockade Int. Vol. 29 #2 1998 “Sketches and Descriptions-Kobes”

Thanks for swift reply. i have not got a copy of C&C vol 29 but will get hold of one. I bow to your greater knowledge on the subject and hope that some more photo's plus info will begin to be published soon.

yours
stu

[StephenLawson]

Thanks Stuwyatt; *But I know better than most that I have been wrong in the past. *Having the original diary was a great boon to me. *The reason the diary was published was that so everyone could get a look at it. The article 'Thoughts and Descriptions' was meant to give everyone a view behind my research and the views of Jacobs on the types of aircraft he flew. Jacobs personal materials were divided into 4 lots by his wife when he died. *The fellow who stole the photos from the albums before they could get to their new owners, visits here quietly and its a good thing he stays quiet. Sorry, The topic has been a sore one. I've even had one individual claim I was plagerizing the Jacobs material by putting my name up as the editor of the piece. It should be remembered that Harry van Dorrsen et al (his team of interpretures) were the driving force in the translation of most of the Jacobs diary originally. I simply checked that, and translated the unfinished portions then had my work reviewed by a proffessor of German languages (a former concentration camp internee.) from Univer. Colorado at Boulder. 69 years young he was. *Two years later he died cross country sking here in Colorado. *Stewart Taylor of Canada did the footnotes. He gave us the allied view of the story. In reality it was many good people that gave us the Jacobs story. Not the least is the late Dr.J.J. Parks who saved the diary and gave it to me with the partial translations and said '...I challenged you to finish the job.' *Paul S. Leaman and George H. Williams were the editors that agreed to have the story printed in both journals to bring a closer bond between both C&C Int. and OtF. Cuss me if its wrong, but thank them that it was done at all. Jacobs was just a man, but a rare breed of man. (The next sentence has been corrected to reflect more accurate info.) One of the few Reserve Leutnant officers in the top twelve aces list. By my calculations #5 over Voss as Jacobs survived. There are others who would cite less but I published the combat reports and the additional info. This is my opinion based on what I have researched. *In all Jacobs proved to be a man of principle as he refused to Nazify. *His resistance of Göring cost him dearly in WWII. In the end Jacobs survived and gave interviews to research hounds like us with out prejudice. *Even when surrounded by modern German Nationalists he continued to be courteous and helpful to all serious researchers. His friendship to Puglisi and Neal O'Connor and Dr. Parks were but a few ways that this grand fellow continued to encourage research. *It was he that opened a research library at his early aviation company after WWI for the early arcivists that saved and past on info to us. *To me it was remarkable that such a man could do his military duty and return to civilian life with so much blood on his hands (as most military commanders must) and live the rest of his days successfully. *Bright eyed and clear thinking, he was evidently quite a decent fellow. *These men existed on both sides of the war. His is just one story. *I was fortunate enough to play a small part in bringing it to people like you.

[Immo_Frese]

The only reserve officer in the top ten aces list..

Sorry for the nit-picking Stephen, but Udet, Rumey and Bäumer were reserve officers too

Immo

[StephenLawson]

'...Sorry for the nit-picking Stephen, but Udet, Rumey and Bäumer were reserve officers too Immo

I stand corrected... If we use the list on page 241 of Over the Lines by Franks, Bailey & Guest. You are correct.
1. Udet became an Oberltnant but still a reserve.
2. Rumey didn't make Lt. until after June 1918 (?) Above the Lines says June 1917. But was still a Reserve Lt. (correct me if I'm wrong, here.)
3. Bäumer was made a Lt.des res. on April 10th, 1918. I was under the impression that he made regular army Lt. until your note made me go back to C&C USA Vol. 5 #4 to Imrie's story about Bäumer and he says Lt. des. Res.