Udet shot down in Albatros

[JoaoMVM]

Hello all!

In an article published in this site, Udet describes how he was shot down in his "pet Albatros" by a Camel (i presume when he was in Jasta 37) and eventually crash landed in German lines.

I would like to know if its possible to trace the date of this event and a possible victor for Udet, since i have no doubt the british pilot claimed him, at least OOC.

Udet says he didnt know how good Camels were in a dogfight at that time so i presume it was one of his first encounters with the type...id put it late August, early September 1917 ?....any thoughts?

Regards
João

[Cliff]

There is a pic of a crashed Albatros with large chevrons on the top, btm. and fuselage sides. I believe it was attributed to Udet. Not sure of it's date or where I saw the pic.

Cliff

[Wingene]

Hello João, Cliff,

perhaps it has something to do with the change of the plane Albatros D III 2132/16 to a new plane Albatros D.Va ?

And possibly the drome was in Wynghene (Wingene today), because he speaks of a drome in Flanders, Jasta 37 was in Wyngehe from 8 oct 1917 until 15 Mar,
but this is only a guess...

see also the color profiles http://www.jastaboelcke.de/artwork/artwork.htm

greetings

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Wingene:
Ltn.Udet moved from Jasta 15 on 19 June 1917 to Jasta 37. Jasta 37 was equipped with Alb.D.III aircraft. Udet flew Alb.D.III 2132/16. Jasta 37 were issued Alb.D.V machines by 27 September. In January 1918, Jasta 37 were converting to Alb.D.Va aircraft.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Gregvan]

Hi,

The interview with Udet by Canadian journalist David B. Rogers was published in "Fawcett's Battle Stories" , a lurid pulp magazine of the 1930's. The events Udet recounted were largely retold from his little wartime book "Kreuz wider Kokarde", and the stories were paraphrased by Rogers in the pulp-fiction language of the day. I have no doubt that the Flanders crash he describes is the one which totaled his black Albatros D.Va of Jasta 37, which he describes in the book as "meiner guten, braven, schwarzen Albatrosmaschine." This photo comes from the book:


Sadly, very few events in the book are dated (wartime censorship) and those that are, are often incorrect! Judging from the context of the events around this one, I would GUESS that this crash took place some time after November 1917, in early 1918. Note the warm clothing of the figures in the photo. As noted Jasta 37 was at Wynghene in Flanders at that time. Udet notes that he was very badly shot up by Sopwiths, but that's all I can tell you. Sorry.

Greg

[TomVrille]

Greetings JoaoMVM

If you would post a link to the article that prompted you to open this thread, it would be much appreciated.

I am not familiar with the engagement you describe, but there is an engagement with many similarities described in Armand van Ishoven's Udet biography The Fall of an Eagle. In van Ishoven's account, Udet dove on an R.E.8 that was ranging artillery batteries. Just as Udet was about to open fire, the 'Harry Tate' banked sharply, and the observer raked Udet's Albatros with his Lewis gun, hitting Udet in the boot and holing his fuel tank. After a few seconds, the Albatros' engine quit. At the time, Udet was about 4 km behind enemy lines at an altitude of some 1500 metres. He immediately broke off the engagement, and made for the German lines. As he was gliding for home, he was spotted by a flight of Camels, three of which dove down to finish off the cripple. For some reason, the Camels did not close on the helpless Albatros, but trailed along at a range of about 300 metres firing with no effect. Once over the lines, Udet landed his stricken Albatros, but promptly nosed over into a water-filled trench. He scrambled out and joined the commander of a Flak battery in his dugout as British artillery began ranging on the downed aircraft. After polishing off a bottle of schnapps with the battery commander, Udet set out for Wynghene around 1500 hrs local time.

According to van Ishoven, this engagement took place on the day after Udet was credited with downing a Camel at 1035 hrs over Deulemont. This victory was said to have taken place on 1 October 1917. A check with Above the Lines shows no such victory, but does show a victory over an S.E.5a of 84 Squadron over Deulemont at 1035 hrs on 18 October 1917. I suspect that there are misprints in van Ishoven's account. Udet's crash, as described above, probably happened on 19 October 1917. Since Jasta 37 did not relocate to Wynghene until 7 October 1917, this later date is most consistent with the engagement narrative.

All in all, an interesting but confused topic!

[Wingene]

Hello TomVrille,

this is the link:

The Aerodrome Forum > Articles and Reviews > People

How I Shot Down 62 Planes by Ernst Udet
Alan
10 April 2004

see page 7

from "The other machine is in the war museum at Berlin with more than 70 distinct bullet and shrapnel marks. ...

does anyone know if this machine is still in the war museum? or is it destroyed in the second world war?

regards

[JoaoMVM]

Thanks Tom and thanks Wingene!

So 19 October 1917 is a fairly good date?..i wonder if there are RE8 or/and Camel claims for Udets machine???

Oh and i loved the picture of Udets crashed Albatros Gregvan!

Best Regards
João

[Gregvan]

Hi JoaoMVM,

Actually, Tomvrille is describing a different incident from the one in the photo. There were (at least) two different times Udet was forced to crash an Albatros after a fight with Sopwiths, both in Jasta 37 in Flanders - thus the confusion.

As Tomvrille points out, Udet was credited with a Camel near Deulemont at 1035 hrs on 18 October 1917 (and not on 1 October, as Van Ishoven has it - probably a typo as Tomrille says) for his 14th victory. However, the way I read the story in Udet's "Kreuz wider Kokarde" (pp. 90 - 95, two sections entitled "Der erstaunte Sopwith Flieger" and "Abgeschossen") he was forced to crash his Albatros that same day, not the following day. In the morning he spotted the LVG being harassed by two Camels, shot one down and scared the other off. He then saw another German Albatros and followed it back to its base at Ghistelles - this was Julius Buckler of Jasta 17 (who tells roughly the same story in his book "Malaula"). After meeting Buckler, Udet invited him over to Wynghene for a meal and the two exchanged views on tactics, etc. Afterwards the two took off again, Buckler heading south and Udet going north. It was then that Udet saw the RE 8 , attacked it and got shot up;he had two shots in his fuel tanks and was gliding home when the 3 Sopwiths showed up and fired at him ineffectually from 300 meters. Within the German lines he managed a forced landing and crashed nose-first into a waterlogged hole/trench. He then joined a nearby Flak battery commander for schnapps while Allied artillery started to pound his Albatros. I don't know what Albatros Udet was flying that day, but it WASN'T the black Alb D.Va seen in the photo I posted. It might have been D.V 4476/17, in which he scored his 10th victory on 17 September. That plane had a natural varnished fuselage, with LO in black/white and the usual Jasta 37 tail stripes.

On 7 November 1917, Udet took over Jasta 37. Soon he had the Albatros fighters of the unit painted with black fuselages in addition to the black/white tail stripes.

His faithful, 'brave' black Albatros D.Va (his pet Albatros, which you asked about from the passage in the David Rogers article on this website) was wrecked later, but sadly he does not give the date. Udet tells the tale on pages 109-111 of 'Kreuz wider Kokarde' and on page 29 of the Rogers article in "Battle Stories" - this incident is not related in Van Ishoven's book, however. Udet was flying at 4500 meters with one other Jasta 37 pilot when they saw three Sopwiths above them. Udet attacked (I seriously doubt his comment about "We had not had much experience with Sopwiths" ), and his fellow pilot was driven off. Udet was on the tail of one of the Camels when another got behind him and shot him up badly. He managed to glide his riddled Albatros D.Va back to his airfield, but had to land downwind. Then his faithful black 'Albatrosmaschine' over turned and was written off. That's the subject of the photo I posted.

I hope that helps.

Greg

[Gregvan]

Hi Again,

As for Udet's machine with 70 bullet hits being in the Berlin War Museum, the Rogers article is the ONLY place I've ever seen this mentioned. One would think that if it was true, then there would be accounts and photos aplenty, but perhaps not. At any rate, if it did exist, it was certainly destroyed in WW2.

By the way, if you're interested in Udet you should check out "Over the Front" Volume 18 No. 3, 2003. It contains a wonderful article on Udet's 10th victory (2/Lt Robert E Taylor, 41 Sqn RFC - in a DH5) by the superb Canadian historian Stew Taylor. It has both the RFC viewpoint and Udet's own take on the story, as well as many photos and color profiles of Udet's various Jasta 37 Albatrosse.

Greg