Having a Mannock moment...

[retread]

From the "Personal Diary of Mick Mannock" (Oughten,1966) Mannock describes his 9th victory near Neuville over a German on a ballon busting mission, bringing down a "Lieutenant von Bartrap, Iron Cross." Bartrap was wounded several times but was able to bring his aircraft down with some damage behind British lines. His aircraft is described as an "single-seater Albatross Scout....a beauty, just issued (1st June 1917) with a 220 h.p. Mercedes engine, all black with crosses picked out in white lines...."
Any background on "von Bartrap" available?
Also, I thought Albatross D.III and D V aircraft were packing 180 h.p. engines- were some issued with 22o h.p. or was this a field modification?

[retread]

Forgot to add the date of Mannock's 9th. August 18th, 1917 (Saturday).

[rammjaeger]

Start with

http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/germany/bertrab.html

[Graeme]

retread

Von Bertrab's intended "victim" on Sunday, 12 August 1917 was one of the 2nd Balloon Wing's balloons near Neuville St Vaast. Mannock fired one complete drum of Lewis ammunition and 20 rounds from his second, hitting the Albatros' engine and forcing von Bertrab to glide down over Vimy Ridge. Von Bertrab had been hit in the right arm and right leg; he broke his left arm in the crash.

By this date, Mannock had submitted 11 claims, but only 5 had been "allowed" by Higher Command. His 9th credited victory was a yellow, red and green DFW two-seater claimed on 17 August 1917 - he made no claim on 18 August 1917.

Graeme

[Gregvan]

Hello Retread,

Mannock's statement about this Albatros having a "220 hp" engine was, in my opinion, an honest mistake. No D.III or D.V had a 220 hp Mercedes. von Bertrab's machine was given the captured a/c number G 60, and I have a few notes on this aircraft courtesy of Paul Leaman. The official report on this aircraft stated it had a 160 hp Mercedes, No 33336. The two "Spandau" machine guns were 4890 and "831". The location is given as near Farbus Wood.

At the risk of hijacking this thread, I thought I would post a well-known photo of von Bertrab's famous earlier Albatros D.III. The report is a bit confused over whether the captured machine was a D.III or a D.V, but I believe it was a D.V, and NOT the D.III seen in the photo. Mannock's description of the machine as "just issued" and the date of 1 June 1917 (presumably taken from some aircraft component) would indicate that von Bertrab was flying a D.V by this time. However, I think that Mannock's description of the aircraft as "all black, with crosses picked out in white lines" is strong evidence that von Bertrab's earlier D.III (in the photo) had a black fuselage as well, with white crosses; the comet insignia was of unknown colors, probably red/yellow/orange, etc. The D.V that von Bertrab was captured in apparently had regular black crosses with white outlines, thus Mannock's description of "crosses picked out in white lines."

The D.III pictured has long been a source of controversy for markings enthusiasts. Earlier Mannock had submitted a combat report of a fight with an Albatros he described as purple with white crosses, and the late Ed Ferko thought this must have been von Bertrab in the D.III pictured here. However, I am of the strong opinion that Mannock encountered someone else that day, or was mistaken in his impression of "purple". It's clear Mannock himself did not associate the captured "von Bartrap" with the "Purple man" he had encountered before.


Graeme, do you have access to Mannock's combat report from the von Bertrab fight? I would be very interested in seeing it.

Thanks,

Greg VanWyngarden

[retread]

The plot thickens. Because of problems with my computer I might have to do this in two or more posts. Anyhow here is Mannocks complete entry,

19 August 1917 (Sunday)
Almost a month since my last notes. Pure laziness. Things have happened. Plenty of scrapping in the air, and much glory. Brought my ninth Hun down yesterday morning.
Had a splendid fight with a single-seater Albatross Scout last week on our side of the lines and got him down. This proved to be Lieutenant von Bartrap, Iron Cross, and had been flying for eighteen months. He came over for one of our ballons- near Neuville- St. Vaast- and I cut him off going back.

[retread]

Mannock continued,

"He didn't get the ballon either. The scrap took place at two thousand feet up, well within the view of the whole front. And the cheers! It took me five minutes to get him to go down, and I had to shoot him before he would land. I was very pleased that I did not kill him. Right arm broken by a bullet, left arm and left leg deep flesh wounds. His machine, a beauty, just issued (1 June 1917) with a 220 h.p. Mercedes engine, all black with crosses picked out in white lines- turned over on landing and was damaged. Two machine guns with one thousand rounds of ammunition against my single Lewis and three hundred rounds! I went up to the trenches to salve the "bus" later, and had a great ovation from everyone. Even Generals congradulated me. He didn't hit me once.
Brought three down during the Lens push. Great Luck."

[retread]

Here it gets even more interesting as regards Gregvan's post. This continues the same diary entry from where I last left off,

"Ran into my old friend the "purple man" again a few weeks ago. No luck. He's a marvel. For ten minutes I was only three hundred feet over him, and he manoeuvered so cleverly that I was unable to get my gun on him once. He got away in the end."

In the notes Frederick Oughten speculates that the "purple man" was "probably Lieutenant Werner Voss". The fact that in the same breath Mannock mentions his victory over Bertrab and then mentions the "purple man" without indicating any sort of connection between the two indicates strongly they were two different pilots and aircraft. I don't have the background to guess whether or not it might be Voss. That is for the forum's "heavy hitters".....

[Graeme]

Greg

Alas no, it was one of the many bits of paper reduced to produce by a leaking water storage tank at our first house.

From the notes I've retained, he was at the advanced airfield at Mazingarbe and took off at about 15:15 (I have seen this recorded as 15:25 but suspect this to be the time of the combat) when a report was received of a German machine crossing the lines. Within minutes he had spotted the Albatros, described as all-black with crosses outlined in white, attacked it and brought it down in the Allied lines between Lens and Farbus. Perhaps Frank can oblige with the actual narrative.

Apparently, Mannock later went to the frontline where the Albatros had come down and was given an ovation by the troops who had witnessed the event.

If memory serves, German engines were rated in PS rather than horse-power; perhaps the rating was 220 PS which was mistaken for horse-power - any engine expert able to offer comment?

retread

By his own admission, Mannock had been lax in keeping up with his diary and it should be noted that in the week up to 19 August, he had been busy in the air, making five claims (of which four were allowed). Small wonder if events had become a little confused.

Von Bertrab was definitely shot down on 12 August 1917 and Mannock's 9th accepted claim was made on 17 August. If he was a day or two out in recording events in his diary, he won't have been the only one.

Graeme

[Gregvan]

Hi All,

Graeme, thanks for that additional info - interesting stuff. Since Retread himself raised this question, I'll point out a few things about "The Purple Man".

A lot of theories have been presented about the identity of the "Purple Man" (sounds like a Pulp hero from the 1930's). Oughton (as Retread points out) said it was probably Voss, and this idea was again taken up by Barry Diggens in his book "September Evening". However, Diggens thinks every skilled and daring German pilot encountered by the RFC in 1917 must have been Voss, and I doubt very much if the PM was Voss. There is no corrorborating evidence.

As I said, Ed Ferko was certain it was von Bertrab. Jasta 30 definitely was opposite No. 40 Sqn at this time, but for the reasons stated before I have my doubts.

Way back in 1970 (actually, probably 1969), the late historian Kelly Wills, Jr. wrote a lengthy and detailed examination of the "Purple Man" in Cross & Cockade, Volume 11 No 1 (Spring 1970). He felt that the Purple Man must have been Adolf Ritter von Tutschek - who did NOT fly a purple Albatros, but rather an Albatros D.V with a black fuselage and tail, with white spinner - regular crosses outlined in white. However, the wings would possibly have been camouflaged in mauve and greens, and Wills speculated that the mauve on the wings combined with the black fuselage to produce an impression of a purple aircraft.Wills produces a number of very interesting excerpts from Lt. Tudhope's combat reports and other writings, McClanachan's book, and other sources.

On 28 July 1917, Mannock filed this report: "Observed one EA two-seater low down and engaged seven EA scouts east of Lens at close quarters. Attacked one Albatros scout coloured purple with white crosses and fuselage and fired approximately 50 rounds at close range. Hits were observed but owing to Aldis sight fogging up completely and broken stay bolt on Aldis fixing, aim was inaccurate. EA swung off east and was attacked by another Nieuport..."

Tudhope's report reads as follows:" Attacked one EA which was on another Nieuport's tail and saw tracers hit the fuselage. Fired about 10 rounds at 100 yards range. EA dived away so Nieuport zoomed up and attacked another EA, firing about 10 rounds at 50 yards range. EA dived, Nieuport followed. Five other EA then got on Nieuport's tail and the latter maneouvered for the lines..."

Lt. Tudhope's report stated the enemy encountered were : "Seven Albatros scouts --- long fuselage, various colours. Some marked with clubs and crosses. "All very fast and good climbers." Tudhope was really shot up in this engagement. His diary reported: "I drove off two (Huns) temporarily, then went down on third and foolishly went after him. Consequently, was beset by five on my tail pumping lead into me. I thought I was going to catch alite when explosives got me. But went down low, then got strafed from Hun lines as well. Turned twice and fired at nearest Hun, but others closed in on me. Archie saved me then. Two new planes (wings) and gun. Bullets through sleeve and collar of my coat." McClanachan's book recorded: "An explosive bullet had burnt through his (Tudhope's) main spar a few inches from the V strut, one of the top planes had been cut to ribbons by bullets, every one of his instruments was smashed and a bullet had passed through his coat collar."

The Albatros Tudhope described with "clubs and crosses" was identified by Wills as Ltn Hochstetter's Albatros D V of Jasta 12 (von Tutschek's unit). Hochstetter was an old artilleryman, and marked his black-tailed D.V with three 'stacked shot" as a reference to his former service. From a distance, this could be interpreted as a "club" of the playing card variety, thus Wills' assertion that this was Hochstetter flying with "the Purple Man." This assertion was also made by Norman Franks and Hal Giblin on page 124 of "Under the Gun's of the Kaiser's Aces." Norman adds that Kennedy of No 40 Sqn noted an Albatros with a "purple club". Von Tutschek's own diary from 29 July stated: "Yesterday at 7:50 a.m., I downed a triplane near Mericourt. At 10:00 AM a Nieuport fighter near Lievin." Von Tutschek further states that his victimes went down burning on the German side of the lines. but British losses don't support this. Wills speculates that the Nieuport was Tudhope's machine, badly damaged and possibly enitting smoke and steam. Lievin is on the eastern edge of Lens and thus in the right spot. Franks and Giblin are certain that No 40 was fighting Jasta 12 in this instance.

On 5 August 1917, Tudhope wrote: "Mannock, McLanachan and I went on patrol and came up from Arras. Hunted in and out of the clouds which were beautiful - finally spotted five Huns over N.E. of Lens - manoeuvered and attacked them over Avion finally. Mannock got his first one down, then had a long fight with my friend of the mauve..."

On 19 August 1917, Mannock wrote: "ran into my friend. the Purple Man, again a few weeks ago. No luck. He's a marvel. For ten minutes I was only three hundred over him and he manoeuvered so cleverly that I was unable to get my gun on him. He got away in the end."

Before I close, I might point out that some Forumites might jump to the conclusion that the Purple Man was Kurt Wolff of Jasta 11, who was reported to have flown a "plum purple" Albatros D.III. However, that description comes from a letter written by Edy Luebbert of Jasta 11 on 6 March 1917. By mid-April 1917 (IMHO) Wolff had switched to flying a largely red Albatros with green trim (according to Lothar). Wolff was wounded on 11 July 1917 and did not return to action with Jasta 11 until 11 September 1917, so he could not have been the "Purple Man".

Or was there really just one Purple Man? The romantic in me wants to believe so, but perhaps this was a mistaken impression built up from encounters with more than one purplish-coloured machine? I believe McCudden's "Green Tail" was actually several different airmen from Jasta 5, encountered at various times, but all with green tails (except for the time McCudden's shot "Green Tail" down - that was Jasta 35 pilot, as has been well established). But that's for another thread.

Greg