Rene Fonck

Balloon_Buster · 6 June 2006, 06:43 PM

Oddly enough, the only things I know about

Rene Fonck is that he was considered a braggert, fine pilot and excellent shot. I vaguely recall that his plane was never hit by enemy fire? Can anyone give me a few more details on this fellow? Thanks, merci, and danke!

stephen · 6 June 2006, 07:38 PM

Less is known of him because he died fairly early (around 1953, methinks) and was royally disliked by his contemporaries. A reading of his book quickly confirms the reason. His autobiography contains virtually no detail, is written poorly, and continually speaks of his own accomplishments in a light that, intentional or otherwise, appears boastful.

Its a shame, really, because so much could have been learned from him. He should have gone down as one of the greatest aces in history, but instead he is virtually forgotten.

Executioner128 · 7 June 2006, 06:22 AM

The fact that his plane was never hit by enemy fire is also a matter of luck, and time --> he began to score in 1917, and his score rose very quickly, awhilst flying his Spad XIII , one of the most sturdy fighter planes of the war (if not: the sturdiest)

of course he must have been exceptionally good, but not unbeatable

if is often thought that Manfred's superiority was not due to his skills, but more due to the excellent Fokker DR I (don't fully agree on this one, but in a sense , it makes sense

)

Balloon_Buster · 7 June 2006, 07:27 AM

Interesting. From what I read, most of the aces had some damage done to their planes- heck, Udet crashed at least one or was it two in combat? Still seems to me that never being hit was quite a feat.

BarkhornXX · 7 June 2006, 07:31 AM

Fonck is a perfect example of man who's ego overshadowed his accomplishments. Everyone loves a hero, but not one that feels the need to remind you of their exploits at every opportunity.

I believe the key to both Fonckes and MvRs success was they were acceptable pilots but exceptionally good shots. So when they got on you in their sights you were as good as dead. The planes they flew had little to do w/ it (only 18 of MvRs kills were made w/ the DrI).

Executioner:

Care to offer a cite for your assertion that:

Quote:

is often thought that Manfred's superiority was not due to his skills, but more due to the excellent Fokker DR I

I know that you don't agree but I would like to know who does.

Barkhorn.

TomVrille · 7 June 2006, 08:17 AM

There are a number of caveats to be observed in regard to the claim that Fonck's aircraft was never hit by enemy fire. I believe the only somewhat plausible claim is that he was not hit in combat with an enemy single-seater, while flying his SPAD scout. He was, for example, shot down by ground fire on September 25, 1915, as related in his autobiography. He also describes a few instances of bullets whizzing around his ears in combat with two-seaters.

Probably his greatest claim to fame is that he was a superb marksman who understood the proper tactics to use, given the relative capabilities of his SPAD and the enemy aircraft he had to deal with.

BTW, the "e" in Foncke is silent....so much so that it cannot be seen.

stephen · 7 June 2006, 08:21 AM

You really should read Fonck's book. Not because its such a good read, but because it gives you insight into his methods (and ego). Like Boelcke and MvR, Fonck had a very matter-of-fact philosophy of air combat. You fly up behind a guy, aim well, and make sure he never gets a shot at you. From his memoirs it seems that Fonck rarely engaged in classic dogfights; rather, he opted for the old ambush from behind trick while avoiding anything that looked risky. Criticize if you will, but he survived while the excessively brave ones like Ball, Luke and Voss did not.

Barrett · 7 June 2006, 10:08 AM

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you've really 'effed' up."

Ken Porter, 147th Aero Sqn., c. 1985.

Southside Bucky · 7 June 2006, 11:39 AM

Hi guys.

You won't find me extolling the virtues of many Frenchmen, but it has to be said that Fonck was THE MAN!

An arrogant braggart he may have been, but when you're as good as he was you can get away with it...He talked the talk, but he also walked the walk, if you will.

Not too sure if his plane ever got hit or not, but he was certainly never shot down or forced to land, unlike most other ace airmen of WW1. (one, in particular springs to mind!)

What's more, I think most WW1 enthusiasts would agree that his 75 confirmed victories are a serious under estimation of his true score, which according to many sources (including Fonck himself) should add a further 52 or even 69, bringing his total to either 127, or 149! I for one, believe the latter to be more accurate!

He shot down 56 German planes between January 19th and November 1st 1918, including 6 in one day twice, on May 9th, and September 26th!

Unfortunately, he's been disparaged from various quarters since WWII, being accused of being a Nazi collaborator. Whatever, no one can take away his exemplary 14-18 record.

A true legend, in my eyes he was simply the best...Praise indeed from an Englishman!

Regards.

Bucky

BarkhornXX · 7 June 2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomVrille

BTW, the "e" in Foncke is silent....so much so that it cannot be seen.

Well, he was French so I added an extra vowel.

Barkhorn.