Hawker v Richtofen

mikebrn · 19 July 2006, 12:53 AM

Is there anywhere that lists the pilots from both sides that were involved in the action that saw the Red Baron down Hawker?

I seem to recall that it might have been a small action (3 v 3?) and just trying to find out who else involved - I believe Andrews may have been one other pilot present.

Was Manny flying a DII at the time?

Thanks,
MIKE

joegertler · 19 July 2006, 06:37 AM

Hi Mike;
Here is info from

Under The Guns of The Red Baron by Franks, Giblin, and McCrery: (and other sources)

Mvr vs.

Lanoe Hawker

MvR Victory number 11
23 November 1916
DH2 No.5964
24 sqdrn RFC
1500 hrs over Bapaume

Mvr reported :
Attacked with two other planes, a Vickers one seater at 3000 meters altitude
Long curved flight of three to five minutes.
He forced adversary down to 500 meters. Adversary was trying to escape by flying to the Front. Brought him down after 900 shots.

Hawker was not so much out-fought , as finding himself at a disadvantage over hostile territory with the need to get back across the lines or be taken prisoner.
On this occasion, the RFC sqdrn had taken off with 3 DH2. (originally 4, but one aborted with a rough engine) froom their base at Bertangles at 1300 to fly a defensive over the 4th Army front. The three were Hawker; Captain J.O. Andrews (in 5998); and Lt. R H M S Saundby (in 5925-who would become an ace and later in WWI Air Vice-Marshall of RAF, and knighted)
At 1350 the patrol spotted two Roland 2-seaters at 6,000 feet, north-east of Bapaume. Andrews dove on them and then saw two strong hostile patrols high up.
Andrews was about to retire from the attack when he saw Hawker dive past him in pursuit of the Rolands.
Witnesses:Lt. Wortmann Lt. Collin
von Richthofen was flying Albatros DII Nr. 491/16

MattyBoy · 19 July 2006, 06:47 AM

Robert Saundby later recounted his experiences in 'Flying Colours.'

I expect that he mentions his involvement in this action, but I cannot be sure because I have never read the book !

The cheapest book seller I have found for this item is USD 150.00....

mikebrn · 19 July 2006, 08:26 AM

Ahhh,

Thanks for this info. Brill.

MIKE

StephenLawson · 23 July 2006, 10:30 AM

Richthofen

Taz · 23 July 2006, 05:34 PM

Mike- The next issue of OTF has an analysis of the engagement. Should have a Steve Anderson painting of the engagement on the cover, we hope.

Taz
Terry Phillips

joegertler · 23 July 2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz

Mike- The next issue of OTF has an analysis of the engagement. Should have a Steve Anderson painting of the engagement on the cover, we hope.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Hi Terry; Wish I had known that. But if you do NOT get the Anderson painting in time, let me know. I can offer a never-published original painting of that engagement for the cover. No fee, of course...

Also have a lot of other WWI paintings of significant WWI aerial combat events and historic WWI aviation moments to offer OTF, if they are interested. The copyrights are cleared for it, by signed documents.

Taz · 23 July 2006, 07:21 PM

Joe- You probably should send low res images of the paintings you have available to OTF's art director, Aaron Weaver on a CD. His e-mail address is in the front of the magazine. Sometimes he needs to find a cover quickly and knowing what you have will speed it up. I believe you have quite a few posted on the Forum already, so letting him know they are available will also help. I assume you already have high res scans or good 4X5s of the paintings?

Taz
Terry Phillips

joegertler · 23 July 2006, 08:31 PM

Thanks for the tip. Terry. I'll get in touch with AAron. Just never thought of it, before. I have a lot of paintings that have never been seen or shown, (on Internet or in print) besides the ones on my website. Some are recorded in my files as high res and low res. For others, I have 8 x 10 color transparencies for printing purposes. I was just about to start on a new digital inventory for the aviation art, yesterday, and of course, it got sidetracked....Needing a CD for Aaron, wil give me some extra motivation. Have three more large WWI paintings coming in this week. Sold another Hubbell of the Sopwith Tabloid, so felt a "void."
Back on topic-sorta-is the news that Saundby's (who was part of the battle that day) 1937 Rolls Royce was sold last month at a country car auction in upstate NY. It brought almost as much as all the other cars together, two or three hundred thousand in need of full restoration!

Cigogne · 23 July 2006, 10:24 PM

Steven Anderson supplied his painting last week to me. Joe, I am sure I will need more help in the future... guaranteed.