Fate of three PLM winners 88

Hi
Just before 88 yers Germany lost three of their PLM winners:

Erich Loewenhardt falls to his death shortly after the noon, after unforunatelly coliding with Alfred Wentz. (54 victories)

In the same time Rudolf Berthold smashes the roof of the house after wild combat with DH4's and SE5's of 56 squadron. Berthold survived but never to return to the front. (44 victories)

Fritz Pütter from Jasta 68 dies after severaly burned when his plane self ignited. (25 victories)

Now let me question to the Berthold case: Was his crash casued by DH4 after the colision or was he shot down by 56 squadron? Here in the web his last victory is that DH4, the same is expressed in 'Fokker DVII aces' by Norman Franks and Greg VanVingarden. In Greg's 'JG2' his last victory is credited as Se5. Can anyone point out?
Honza.

[JoaoMVM]

id like to know wich DH4 they were fighting, since i dont find matching losses among any of the squadrons...namely, wich DH4 collided with Berthold.

Regards´
João

Hi,
According to Osprey 'JG2' these were 12 DH4 from 27. and 49. squadron. The were on their way to bomb railway stations at Péronne and Equancourt or on the way back.
Honza.

[Volker_Nemsch]

According to "the Jasta War Chronology" Berthold shot down 2 aircraft on 10.08.2006:

Hptm. R. Berthold, JGII, D.H.4, Licourt, 12:20, victory 43
Hptm. R. Berthold, JGII, D.H.4, Ablaincourt, 12:30, victory 44 (*)

(*)
B9344, 49. Sqn RAF, 2/Lt H. Hartney & Sgt. O. D. Beetham, POWs

Berthold was severely wounded in action near Péronne on this day.

[Intrepid]

Originally Posted by Honza

Hi
Just before 88 yers Germany lost three of their PLM winners:

Erich Loewenhardt falls to his death shortly after the noon, after unforunatelly coliding with Alfred Wentz. (54 victories)

In the same time Rudolf Berthold smashes the roof of the house after wild combat with DH4's and SE5's of 56 squadron. Berthold survived but never to return to the front. (44 victories)

Fritz Pütter from Jasta 68 dies after severaly burned when his plane self ignited. (25 victories)

Now let me question to the Berthold case: Was his crash casued by DH4 after the colision or was he shot down by 56 squadron? Here in the web his last victory is that DH4, the same is expressed in 'Fokker DVII aces' by Norman Franks and Greg VanVingarden. In Greg's 'JG2' his last victory is credited as Se5. Can anyone point out?
Honza.

According to Hanns Möller in "Kampf und Sieg eines Jagdgeschawders" ( Verlag Bernard and Grafe, Berlin 1939) his 43rd victory was over an English single seater which fell in flames. His 44th was a DH-4 , a bitter battle which Berthold ended in 10 minutes. The DH-4 reportedly hit the ground so hard it disintegrated into a cloud of dust on impact.
Berthold was about to pull up the nose of his aircraft which was badly shot up when he was shocked to find the control stick had broken off in his hand.

At 800 meteres he decided to jump , but with only his left hand he could not operate the release of the parachute. Berthold tried not to loose his balance by holding on to the wing, but his strength was leaving him. Looking down he watched as his machine raced towards a house. The engine flew through the roof into the ground and the landing gear and fuselage deflected sideways.
The only injury the unconscious Berthold sustained was the rebreaking of his unhealed arm.
This took place in the village of Ablaincourt , west of Perrone with the wreakage of Berthold's D.VII lying between the charred remainds of his final two victories.

This account will also be found in "Over The Front" Vol. 9 No. 4 Winter 1994


Marlon Schultz

Thanks for replies, so there are really two different accounts
Honza.