Shot down -October 5th, 1917 -Macedonia

[Claudius]

Gentlemen;

Regarding the confirmed kill by W. Grasmeher on October 5th, 1917. The location of the down airplane is "South of Lake Prespa". I have located this lake on the map.

I have ruled out the English. Not only is there no account in TFWC, the English were operating farther to the east on the Macedonia Front.

This is closer to where the Russian, French and Serbians were operating. But AGBLUME ruled out the French and Serbians as having no losses on that day. I did notice that the Prespa Lake is at the eastern end of the Italian area of the front.

Could the victory be over an Italian? Just like the Brits and Serbians, the Italians were probably using Nieports in Oct 1917.

Is there a publication/source for italian air causalities?

[My uncle Paul Andrillon]

Hello,
I have some information regarding Paul Andrillon. I have some documents written by himself covering from 28 august to 27 september 1918. He speaks about Lashermes. This is a beginning ;-)

[Tommyser]

Originally Posted by Claudius

Is there a publication/source for italian air causalities?

Hi, Claudius.

The publication in Italian:
"Gentili, Roberto; Varriale, Paolo; I Reparti dell'aviazione italiana nella Grande Guerra; Ufficio Storico dello Stato Maggiore dell'Aeronautica, Roma 1999"

On 493 pages you can find there the description of all Italian casualties divided by units. There is also an index of names (only Italian names are listed there) but no possibility to quick search dates. So, first locate the unit, then check by date.

Regards,

[Claudius]

Hello Tommyser;

That's great! Merci!

I will find out the Italian units operating in that area and get back to you.

Thank you again.

-Claudius

[duedicoppe]

Dear friends,
sorry for the delay, but only now I returned in the forum.
According to my data, on October 5th, 1917, tenente Ernesto Bonavoglia, co of 1st Section of Italian 83th Squadriglia, had a combat in Macedonia, but he, on a SPAD fighter, claimed an e/a forced to a quick dive (forced down?) toward the "Resia Plain" and returned home safe and sound.
To be sure about what happened, would be necessary to know where is the "Resia Plain". I have found the Prespa Lake, but I was not able to find this name on the map.
All the best
Paolo

[dpolglaze]

Originally Posted by Claudius

Additionally, does anyone know of a book that gives a good overview of the Macedonia front?

Claudius,

Depending upon what you're after, overviews of air actions in that region can be found in Haupt-Heydemarck's "War Flying in Macedonia" and H.A. Jones' "Over the Balkans and South Russia."

Dan

[duedicoppe]

Dear Claudius and other friends,
I came this morning to Italian Air Force Historical Office for some other researches and I was able to check tle Flight Log of Tenente Ernesto Bonavoglia. The entry for this date says: "(he) attacks above Prespa Lake ,an enemy plane that spins hastily, then it dives quickly toward Resia plain. Probably shot down". The Italian fired 50 bullets.
I will try to search the Combat Report in one of my next visits there, but It seems to me that was really Bonavoglia the opponent of Grasmeher.
All the best
Paolo

[Claudius]

Gentlemen,

I'm sorry that I didn't respond sooner, because I was out sick with influenza.

There might be a misunderstanding... W. Grasmeher shot down a Nieport on October 5th, 1917 south of Prespa Lake.
(Grasmeher was NOT shot down on October 5th 1917)

I'm looking for the name of the pilot and nationality of the single seat Nieport that was shot down on October 5th, 1917. Somewhere south of the Prespa Lake.

If someone has causality list for the non-British, Allied air losses for Macedonia, I would like to know who was shot down on that date that was flying a single seat Nieport.

Thank you again for looking.

-Claudius

[Rick]

Perhaps a case of each man claiming a victory when in fact none had occurred? Just a passing thought. R.

[duedicoppe]

Dear Claudius and others,
I would be inclined to agree with Rick. The place and the date is the same. Moreover, the German observer was killed in action. Lacking other fights in the same date/area, it seems, in my humble opinion, a typical and not rare case of "same action-different tales". A quite frequent occurence on every front in every time.
Happy landings
Paolo