Crash plane KG 4/Ks 23 on 15/6/1917

CNOCK · 8 November 2006, 06:02 AM

Hello,

On 15/6/1917 a plane of KG 4/ KS 23 fell burning near the Yser (Dixmude)
Lt. A. Schneider and vfw R. Schipfer were killed.

Does anyone knows what really happened?

Regards,

Cnock

MikeW · 9 November 2006, 12:21 AM

Eddy,

On the 15th FCdr Shook of Naval 4 attacked a 2-seater trying to cross the lines at Dixmude, he hit the observer and the machine went down, initially in the direction of Ghistelles. Shook was unable to follow it down due to very intense Anti-aircraft fire and he last saw the enemy machine at 8000 feet, I don't think he put in a claim for it as he didn't think it was OOC. No mention of flames.

I can probably dig out the time of the engagement.

Mike

CNOCK · 9 November 2006, 03:06 AM

Hi Mike,

I have a small eye-witness report about 15/6/1917
The plane fell burning at 11.45 hrs at noon (German time) near German positions at the Yser.
The crew, a Lt and a Vfw killed.

Regards,

Cnock

MikeW · 9 November 2006, 05:11 AM

The time was 10.30 to 10.45 British time though I'm not totally convinced Shook is your man. As far as I can tell it was the only RNAS engagement in the right area that day - the Naval 4 Squadron record book is less enthusiastic about the combat than the RNAS Summary!

I am afraid that I have no idea whether there were any RFC, French or Belgian encounters on the 15th.

Mike

CNOCK · 9 November 2006, 07:30 AM

Hi Mike,

Thanks anyway for Your reserach.

Regards,

Cnock

James A. Pratt III · 13 November 2006, 05:34 PM

According to my not 100% reliable notes they may have been shot down by Belgian Ace

Jan Olieslagers.

CNOCK · 14 November 2006, 12:44 AM

Hello James,

Thanks for the reply.
Olieslagers claimed a Fokker DII on 15/6/1917, but this was a twoseater Albatros.

Regards,

Cnock

Soderbaum · 14 November 2006, 09:39 AM

Hi Cnock

I have two possible candidates for bringing down the a/c from Kasta 23. As you I have a Kofl 4 report which says that they were brought down in flames within allied hold lines....

1. F/Lt Cyril A Eyre from 1 N sq is the first....

2. Holman - Barker - Taylor from 41 sq is the second candidate...

The time for these claimants fits, and the area fits more roughly....

Maybe the citars from the British pilots can give better information or possible G-list report...??

Gunnar

Graeme · 14 November 2006, 10:39 AM

I have Eyre's claim timed at 12:00 (British time), a two-seater down behind the Allied lines at St Jean, north-east of Ypres.

Holman, Barker and Taylor claimed a two-seater that crashed in the vicinity of Ypres at 12:05 (British time).

Since there was a one-hour difference between British and European clocks at that stage of the war, we're looking for Allied claims timed 10:45 to 11:00. I have a note that Collishaw claimed a two-seater out of control between St Julien and Houthem at 10:55 - perhaps MikeW can give us his view on Collie's "victory".

Graeme

CNOCK · 14 November 2006, 10:54 AM

Hello Gunnar and Graeme,

The claims of Eyre , Holman-Barker, are too far from Diksmuide.
Shook is still a possibility , or AA.

Thanks,

Cnock