Voss Ran out of Bullets

Five Years In the R.F.C. by J.T.B. McCudden, page 243:

Rhys-Davids came in for a shower of congratulations, and no one deserved them better, but as the boy himself said to me, "Oh, if I could only have brought him down alive," ...
(Sounds like bigotry.)

ZAK

[Graeme]

Gents

An excerpt from Rhys Davids' report appears in RFC Communique No 106:

"The other EA scout now vanished, but the red-nosed Albatros and the Triplane fought magnificently. I got in several bursts at the Triplane without apparent effect, and twice placed a new drum on my Lewis gun. Eventually I got east and slightly above the Triplane and made for it, getting in a whole Lewis drum and a corresponding number of Vickers into him. He made no attempt to turn until I was so close to him I was certain we would collide. He passed my right-hand wing by inches and went down. I zoomed. I saw him next with his engine apparently off, gliding west. I dived again and got one shot out of my Vickers; however, I reloaded and kept in the dive. I got in another good burst and the Triplane did a slight right-hand turn, still going down. I had now overshot him (this was at 1000 feet), zoomed, but never saw him again. Immediately afterwards I met the red-nosed scout who was a short way south-east of me. I started firing at 100 yards. The EA then turned and fired at me. At 30 yards range I finished a Lewis drum and my Vickers stopped, so I dived underneath him and zoomed. When I looked again I saw the EA spiralling down steeply out of control.”

Unfortunately, I don't have the full report to hand - perhaps Alex has something in his files - so can't say where the in-line engine and four guns comes from.

Graeme

[Rittersbach]

He made no attempt to turn until I was so close to him I was certain we would collide. He passed my right-hand wing by inches and went down. I zoomed. I saw him next with his engine apparently off, gliding west. I dived again and got one shot out of my Vickers; however, I reloaded and kept in the dive. I got in another good burst and the Triplane did a slight right-hand turn, still going down.

Doesnt this contradict Rhys Davids' famous quote "Oh, if I could only have brought him down alive"?

We all have our opinions about history and the way it was told. And my opinion on this incident is, Rhys-David had absolutely no intention of bringing Voss down alive. He was going to see him to his bloody end if it was the last thing he did. The same with MvR.

[Southside Bucky]

Originally Posted by ZAK;

Five Years In the R.F.C. by J.T.B. McCudden, page 243:

"Oh, if I could only have brought him down alive," ...
(Sounds like bigotry.)

ZAK

???...ZAK, with all due respect, what are you talking about? Please elaborate...

Regards.

Bucky.

[Taz]

It is impossible to blame Rhys Davids for continuing to shoot at Voss. This was an enemy who had just done a pretty good job of chewing up an entire formation and was flying an aircraft still apparently under control, and close enough to the lines to still escape. Chivalry or not, there is no way Rhys Davids should have considered letting Voss get back to his own lines. Think about Guynemer and Udet where Guynemer's chivalrous (or was his gun jammed, too?) action of letting Udet go after Udet's guns jammed. That gesture (if it was one) probably cost another 50 dead French, British, and American airmen. Voss was given the same treatment he himself would have given any allied airman.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Was there a British version of "Zur Landung gezwungen" (forced to land)?

ZAK

Let's take into account that Voss was wounded and he tried to land. His engine was dead (Rhys-Davids told us) and he was GLIDING WEST (Rhys-Davids told us), flying very low (McCudden told us).

No chance for Voss to escape - only a "Zur Landung gezwungen", Rhys-Davids was thinking of - when with McCudden.

ZAK

[RED BARON RETURNS]

I have been gone a few months and came back on-line to see whats up..
You guys are great....I'm learning something every time i come on this site.
This a a really interesting thread here too.
Taz as always your the best.
JP

[alex_revell]

Zak,
If from the safety of your armchair you decide to gratuitiously insult a brave young man, now long dead, at least get your terms right. I would suggest you invest in a good dictionary.

Alex,
only quoting your brave young man.
A better dictionary would be of help?

ZAK