Mannock and the chair

[266]

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to this forum but I've been following the discussions for the past year. I've got a research project about Mick Mannock in mind, and I'm wondering if someone out there with the right reference material can help me or direct me.

One of the stories I've read about Mannock is that when he first arrived at 40 Squadron he sat in a chair of a popular pilot who had just been killed. Apparently this did not endear him to his new colleagues (or perhaps I should say "comrades"). Can anyone tell me the name of the pilot who had just died? The circumstances of his death? In fact, I'm wondering about the losses of 40 Squadron preceding Mannock's arrival (early April 1917) to get an idea of the context he was entering.

Thanks very much,

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[Paddy]

His name was Pell according to what I've read about the incident. I recall seeing a photo of his crashed Nieuport but cannot recall the serial # right now. It is in the British Squadron Marking book by Les Rodgers and if you would like this info, I will post it later this evening.
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edited: As Graeme points out, he was lost while flying A'6667. The machine, as part of B Flight, is described as having been marked "IV", white edged in black. This appears aft of the roundel on the fuselage and one character either side of the center of the top wing. The aforementioned book states that 2/Lt Pell was on a special mission attacking a balloon when he was brought down. I hope that this helps.....

[266]

Thanks, Paddy. I'd like the information and anything else you have on Pell. First name? Checking 'Ace With One Eye' I see Pell's name mentioned, and should have caught that myself. According to the book, the circumstances of Pell's death: "It was the usual story, the Germans had come out in a fast wolf pack, cutting Pell off and shooting him to bits." Don't know if I trust the authors, Oughton and Smyth, on much of this because the book seems like a dramatization with no sources indicated.

[Graeme]

2nd Lt Harry Saxon Pell was killed in action 6 April 1917 in Nieuport 17 A6667. His machine was hit by anti-aircraft fire in the vicinity of Sallaumines.

He was the squadron's third Nieuport casualty and the second of only four casualties suffered by the squadron during "bloody" April. He was buried in Orchard Dump Cemetery, Arleux-En-Gohelle.

He achieved two victories:

an enemy machine out of control on 25 January 1917 (flying FE8 6410); RFC Communique No 72 says "2nd Lt H S Pell, No. 40 Squadron, engaged and drove down a German aeroplane out of control south of Lens."

and an Albatros scout "destroyed" on 6 April 1917 - RFC Communique No 82 states "2nd Lt H S Pell, 40 Squadron, drove down an HA south of Bailleul. This machine was observed by anti-aircraft fire to crash."

Graeme

[266]

Great information. Were 40 Squadron casualties heavy in March 1917? I know that they were involved in a fight with Jasta 11 on March 9, and according to Nowarra and Brown's 'Von Richthofen and the Flying Circus' four of 40 Squadron FE8s were shot down (though that doesn't necessarily mean all pilots were lost). I also know that the FE8 ace Lobo Benbow was wounded on March 19. (Was the unit still flying FE8s then?) Looking at some long lost threads, it seems I should probably pick up the old Cross and Cockades with the 40 Squadron articles. Thanks again.

[Graeme]

The squadron suffered seven casualties in March 1917:

09-Mar-17: Lt G F Haesler (Pow) in FE8 A4874
09-Mar-17: 2nd Lt W B Hills (Pow) in FE8 6397
09-Mar-17: 2nd Lt T Shepard (Pow) in FE8 6456
09-Mar-17: 2nd Lt R E Neve (Wia) in FE8 6399
21-Mar-17: Lt E L Benbow MC (Wia) in FE8
22-Mar-17: 2nd Lt S J Stocks (Wia) in FE8
30-Mar-17: Lt D M F Sinclair (Kia) in Nieuport 23 A6780

Against these losses, the unit had claimed claimed only three victories:

06-Mar-17: Lt E L Benbow in FE8 A4871, an Albatros scout in flames. RFC Communique No 24 states: Lt E L Benbow, 40 Squadron, drove down a hostile machine which also fell in flames near Givenchy.

09-Mar-17: 2nd Lt H C Todd in FE8 6425, an Albatros scout out of control. From RFC Communique No 24: Nine FE8s of 40 Squadron, whilst patrolling over Oppy in the morning, were unusually heavily fired at by anti-aircraft guns for about five minutes. Two hostile machines appeared well to the east of the patrol. The anti-aircraft fire suddenly ceased and eight or more hostile machines dived from above the clouds onto the FE patrol. Apparently the two machines, the anti-aircraft and the formation of hostile aircraft were working in accordance with a pre-arranged plan. In the combat that ensued at least one hostile machine was destroyed. Three of our machines failed to return and the remainder were badly shot about. One FE just succeeded in reaching our lines when it burst into flames. The pilot, who had been twice wounded, jumped from the machine. The fight lasted for about half an hour.

30-Mar-17: Capt R Gregory in Nieuport A6680, a Halberstadt driven down. As per RFC Communique No 82: Capt R W Gregory, 40 Squadron, dived at two hostile machines near Bailleul, one of which he drove down apparently badly damaged.

Graeme

[266]

Thanks for the detailed information. (From reading old threads, I gather Todd's victory that day was von Richthofen, who was forced to land with a damaged engine. I seem to recall the postings concluding Todd hadn't been creditted, but your info seems to indicate he got an OOC. The communique mentions a German aircraft "destroyed," but that wouldn't be Todd's, I suppose. Richthofen's account mentions an aircraft falling by his in flames.) One last thing, when did 40 Squadron switch over from FE8s to Nieuports? (I ordered the two British-version Cross and Cockades with the 40 Squadron articles so I'm sure those will answer a number of my questions.)

[Graeme]

As far as I know, Todd's was the only claim made by 40 Squadron on 9 March. Quite frequently the Communiques "upgrade" a claim, so while the combat report will quote out of control, the corresponding entry in a Communique will become destroyed.

I don't know a specific date for the changeover from FE8s to Nieuports, but the last FE8 casualty was 2nd Lt S J Stocks who was wounded on 22 March; the first Nieuport claim was made on 30 March.

The burning aeroplane reported by Richthofen was probably Rupert Neve's FE8. Neve survived only to lose his life in a flying accident in Camel B5235 on 26 January 1918 whilst with No 40 (Training) Squadron.

Graeme

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Just to finish up this thread, Graeme, from your posts it seems there was a 40 Squadron pilot shot down or hurt (in a Nieuport) between the losses of Gregory and Pell. Could you pass along that info? And thanks to you and Paddy for giving me an idea of the world Mannock was stepping into.

[Graeme]

40 squadron's casualties in April 1917 were:

03-Apr-17: 2nd Lt S A Sharpe (Pow) in Nieuport 17 A6674
06-Apr-17: 2nd Lt H S Pell (Kia) in Nieuport 17 A6667
29-Apr-17: Capt F L Barwell (Kia) in Nieuport 17 A6745
29-Apr-17: Lt J A G Brewis (Kia) in Nieuport 17 A6739

Gregory wasn't one of 40 Squadron's casualties. Promoted Major, he commanded No 66 Squadron in Italy until he was killed in action in Camel B2475 on 23 January 1918.

Graeme