Lt. Karl Höhne and Lt. Ernst Schulz served where and when?

[Volker_Nemsch]

Hello!

On a cemetary in France I stumbled across the following crew that was killed on 18.09.18:

Lt. Karl Höhne
Lt. Ernst Schulz

My questions are:

I know that they were flying a 2-seater - but of what type?
Who was the pilot, who was the observer?
In which unit did they serve?
Are there service records or details of their unit existing?

Thank you in advance for your help!

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[Dan_San_Abbott]

Volker Nemsch:
They were from Fl.Abt.36. Ltn .Karl Hoehne was the observer and Ltn. Ernst Schulz was the pilot.
My guess is until I can find out more, they were probably flying a Rumpler C.VII. Fl.Abt. were generally assign to the AOK. They came down at Maas-Ost.
Rick, what do you have?
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Volker_Nemsch]

Hello Dan-San,

thank you very much for your help.

Meanwhile I found some more bits of information concerning this crew:

You are right, they were members of FA 36. Their aircraft was shot down by the American ace Frank Luke and they crashed near Jonville on recently US captured territory during the "St.Mihiel offensive".

In his victory list the aircraft is mentioned as a "Halberstadt C." - I believe (but I'm not absolutely sure) that at least the manufacturers name is right, because the Alliied had a chance to inspect the wreckage as it was not shot down in flames or burned after hitting the ground. A short time later Luke was photographed with his "victim" and there were some more pictures taken, because by chance an official photographer was there when Luke scored this victory and had to land nearby.

This leaves only the question about the exact type. Was it one of the new Halberstadt C.V or an older C.III? Is there a chance that the plane was one of the small CL-class and that the soldiers simply identified every German 2-seater as a "C-class aircraft"?
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[Dan_San_Abbott]

Volker:
I doublt very much that they were flying a Halb.C.III, that would not be up to speed for FL.Abt.36. I would feel they were flying a Halb.C.V. I just looked through the U.S.Army Summary of Information, 18 September and through October 1918 hoping the may of been some reference to Lt. Frank Luke's engagement with this Halberstadt aircraft, unfortunately, nothing.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Gregvan]

Hi,

I'm pretty sure they were flying an LVG , probably a C.V. Here's the wreckage of Luke's two-seater victim of 18 September:


This is an official Signal Corps photo, No. 23480, I think. What is left of the tail structure indicates an LVG C.V or C.VI. There's little difference between the tail structure of the C.V and C.VI, but I'm sure Dan-San can tell the difference.

One should never put too much trust in American pilots' descriptions of German aircraft, especially two-seaters. They couldn't tell the difference between Halberstadts and Hannovers, LVG's or DFWs. Frank Olynyk's records of US aerial victories lists this victory only as a "two seater" crashed from1500 m, SE of Verdun, and I bet that's the way Luke described it in his combat report. The "Halberstadt" description may have been added in other sources by well-meaning historians. Stephen Skinner no doubt knows all the answers about this.

There's another, better-known photo of Luke posing with the wreckage, but there is REALLY very little to indicate the make of aircraft - it's just twisted scraps of metal, linen and wood. Luke's face expresses no pride in the photo, just his uncertainty about his friend Joe Wehner, who failed to return that day. At that time Wehner's fate was unknown, but Luke knew that Wehner was probably dead.

Greg

[Cigogne]

The horizontal tailplane and tailskid will provide some answers!

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Volker:
Greg must have one helluva photo collection! That great great Greg. From the trailing edge of the tailskid support,it is a LVG.C.V. The trailing edge of the C.VI tailskid support is vertical, not curved.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Volker_Nemsch]

Gentlemen,

thank you very much! That's one of the reasons why I come here regulary since the year 2000 ...

... here you will find all the specialists!


By showing a photo of a splinter of wood and a little piece of fabric you will be told from what kind of type of aircraft it was. By asking for the fate of a pilot and offering only a hopelessly misspelled name you will get the correct name and hints concerning his service record. By asking for an unknown unit stationed "somewhere in nowhere" you will get the unit history as well as other relevant data.

Not to forget the modellers section (I always feel extremely untalented when looking in there) and the off-topic section (sometimes a pretty good mixture of a pyschatric clinic and the Muppet Show) ...

It is fun to ask and to answer questions here!

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