A correction re: Ernst Udet

[alex_revell]

Just as a side comment, as I don’ t know very much about these post- war events in Germany, but as you all probably know, Alex Imrie was an airline pilot based in Germany in the late 50 and early 60s and knew many ex pilots. One of these was Willi Gabriel and I remember that he told Alex many stories of the war and afterwards. During his days in JG1, he had fallen foul of Goring because he disobeyed an order not to fly and he shot down some French aircraft. In the post-war reunions of JG1 the other pilots would keep him out of Goring’s sight for as long as possible because they knew Goring would have fit if they came face to face. Despite this, Goring got Gabriel out of many scrapes during the war - and G was a bit of a character - purely because he had been a member of JG1. One particular incident was the smuggling of a large amount of contraband back to Germany in a JU52, flown by Gabriel. The Gestapo got wind of it and it was a very serious charge, but Goering intervened and got Gabriel off. According to Gabriel he always looked after members of the old German Army Air Service.
Despite the front and buffoonery Goring was no fool. I remember reading an account of the Nuremberg trials where it was stated that he ran rings round the American prosecutor.
Incidently, on the question of people joining the Nazi party. Gabriel told Alex that he would have joined a party led by the devil himself if it enabled him to fly again.

[Lawrence Milner]

Originally Posted by WarrenD

Darren,
Thanks! You are right, it was James Bacque who wrote the piece I mentioned. Apologies all around for getting it wrong forumites.
However, I knew that I had some kind of negative association relating to Irving's name. So, I will re-phrase my previous statement: "I would take anything Irving said with a grain of salt since he has a tendency to question important aspects of the Holocaust."
There, I hope that is better.
For info regarding Degelow's activities post-war regarding his trying to get old Kameraden out of Nazi Germany I refer y'all to Germany's Last Knight of the Air: The Memiors of Major Carl Degelow by Peter Kilduff. It was a great read, and I found a copy cheap on either Alibris or Abe Books, I can't remember which now.

Warren

I didnt realize that the book I got from my local library by David Irving was the same person that had been locked up in Austria - but as I read everything I can get my hands on that tells me anything about HG, I read it (that includes HG's widow -who thought he was a saint). I havent found Irving to be pro-HG compared to the other books I have read on the subject.

Regarding the memoirs of Carl Degelow -on page 132 there is a picture showing Tony Raab among others and another on page 182 showing Ltnt. Raab(Adjutant) but its a totaly different person. I have other pictures of this person and his name is Raabe (always looks as if he has a funny story to tell). I think the other picture is of Jasta 27 with HG taking a stroll with his men and Raabe bringing up in the rear, still with the silly grin. Who is this Raabe?

[Kilian]

The only thing because Udet entered Luftwaffe is because he wanted to fly again and because Göring and other WWI aces persuaded him to join. He was not liking Hitler, he mentioned this on various occasions. The only fault he did is that he wanted to develop the Stuka.

The job offer of the nazis could solve all these problems for him thats why he joined Luftwaffe again. There were various reasons why he killed himself. He was forbidden to fly by Göring. His rival Milch could do what he want now and he could not bear this.

Hitler never wanted to have an air war with England (in the beginning of the war) and therefore Udet missed to force the production of long range bombers and fighters, the development of night units etc came too late, disadvantage in the radar development. This was also due to the fact that he often gave favor to Messerschmidt who was a friend of him and not to Heinkel or he asked both companies and also others to work parallel further on their prototypes besides they would not be selected for use later.

This was a mismanagement. He was not a good organisator in the office. Other people had to do this for him. Thats why he later asked Walther Angermund to join his office and why it was easy for Göring and Hitler to blame him later for the failiures of the Luftwaffe.

[Bruno Stachel]

I'm reading Gunther Rall's biography by Jill Amadio. In it Rall says that all Udet wanted to do was fly. That Goring forced Udet to take the desk job, for which he was "ill-suited". Udet fought an uphill battle against Hitler's poor judgement in Luftwaffe matters. He felt that Goring was against him too. According to a friend of Rall's, in the know, Udet left a picture of Goring with the words, "Goring, you cheated us."

[Fallschirmjager]

Udet, as I mentioned earlier, also failed to see the potential of jet aircraft.
Following the 1938 successful flight of the Heinkel 178, Ernst Heinkel himself called Udet at home to inform himof the milestone. Wakened from his sleep, Udet gave a mumbled congratulations, then asked if he could go back to sleep. This set the tone for his relative indifference to the jet program (he
was not against it, so much as he did not believe the technology could be put into action in the immediate future). He did, however, see the importance of
a long-range, strategic bomber, and did try to advance the idea and its development, but ran into a wall with Goring and Speer, who felt that the medium range tacticals were all that would be necessary for victory.

Fallschirmjager

[crankcase]

correct me pls, but i also recall that udet had his heart set on buying a stearman in the states and that hermann bankrolled it, thus putting ernst in the fat man's debt. just couldn't say no...
crankcase

Originally Posted by crankcase

correct me pls, but i also recall that udet had his heart set on buying a stearman in the states and that hermann bankrolled it, thus putting ernst in the fat man's debt. just couldn't say no...
crankcase

Hi crankcase,

The aircraft were actually Curtiss F6 dive bombers (he bought two with the help of the Nazi government in 1933).

regards,

Darren

I believe it was Milch who was more responsible for making Udet's life miserable than Goering.

Milch was Udet's direct superior and resented terribly Udet's flying record and public popularity. Milch was a cipher, a bureaucrat. Goering and Udet had combat flying in common.

I seem to recall that Udet ran into financial problems, manipulated by Milch in his Lufthansa mechinations.

I find Goering ultimately an interesting person. He was the only one of the Nurenburg defendants to put up a spirited and intelligent defence. He licked drug addiction at least twice (the last time in a permanent manner).

In the late 1930s he was arguably more popular than Hitler and enjoyed great public support. That, of course, was before bombers began arriving over Berlin and his name became "Cohen."

[Roadhog]

Howdy folks, Actually did't he say in words to the effect that if an enemy bomb ever fell on Berlin "you can call me meir, or meyer." That's the name I always heard associated with that quote. VR, Scott

[crankcase]

winged warrior,
so it was the curtiss (dive bomber) which i guess offered both pivate aerobatic and military applications.
roadhog,
i recall "meier" as well ("battle of britain" film and other sources).
crankcase