Rene Fonck's Popularity

[Southside Bucky]

Hi guys.

It seems to me, everytime someone mentions Fonck on this forum, a crowd gathers to try to rip his reputation to pieces...Yet as far as I know, there's no proof of any kind that he ever collaborated with the Nazi's, only vague allegations which cite his pre war "Friendship" with Goering, (a fellow veteran WW1 pilot) as "evidence".

Anyone who's read his book Ace of Aces will confirm that his hatred and loathing for the Boches (as he refers to the Germans) shines through on just about every page.
I find it very hard to believe that he could've put that hatred behind him a mere twenty odd years later...As far as he was concerned, Germany had defiled his beloved France, and was responsible for the loss of almost a whole generation of his countrymen.

His lesser popularity compared to Guynemer et al, stems from his arrogant attitude and boastfulness...But when you're the best at what you do, like he was, you're entitled to brag.

All the best.

Bucky

[austin08]

Here is perhaps another angle in relation to Foncks' popularity, especially in relation to prevailing attitudes in the French Air Service. Fonck was a conscripted country lad whose skill & courage elevated him from the ranks. This at a time when social & military rank were still considered to be of prime importance. Pilots from Sous- Lieutenant down went to one mess hall & those above to another & did not mix with each other.
I suspect that many officers whose rank was surpassed by Fonck may have hated serving under a social inferior. Much of the criticism of Fonck in regard to his behavior may simply be a case of snobbery.

[Gregvan]

Hi All,

Regarding the question that started this thread, I have one photo postcard of Fonck and I'm sure there were others. Perhaps just as noteworthy, there is considerable motion picture footage of Fonck shot by France's official propaganda cinematographers. He is shown suiting up and climbing into his SPAD, then flying off into the blue. There is also footage of Fonck practicing his marksmanship, being decorated, carrying the flag in the aforementioned victory parade, and even hobnobbing with star athletes at some wartime sporting venue. While many of France's aces were filmed, this degree of coverage is (IMHO) matched only by Guynemer and Nungesser. I also think that "La Guerre Aerienne" devoted considerable ink and photos to Fonck's exploits. He was hard to ignore, after all.

While some of his contemporaries were either jealous or put off by his brash arrogance, there were several who admired him without reserve. One was the very observant and astute American Charles Biddle, who actually flew in Fonck's GC 12. As early as Oct. 30, 1917, Biddle wrote in a letter: "We have one fellow named Fonck in this group who only started in on chasse work last Spring, although he had been a pilot for a long time. Already he has about 20 Huns. He is a wonder, and with a little luck, should - I think - equal Guynemer's record. He flies a great deal, and the regularity with which he nails them is extraordinary. A couple of days ago, he went out in the morning and brought one Hun down in flames, and killed a machine gunner in another, only failing to get it because his engine went back on him. In the afternoon Fonck went out again, and probably got a single-seater as well. When a man gets a few Huns and becomes recognized as very good he of course gets greater opportunities, and has the advantage of being among the first to get the newest and finest type of machine...But no matter what advantage of this sort he has, Fonck has won it and his record is none the less remarkable."

Then on May 25, 1918, he writes: "Have you noticed how Lt. Fonck has been going? 45 officially now and with any luck he will beat Guynemer's record. He is a wonderful pilot and a perfectly marvellous shot, and seems to me to be easily the most skilful pursuit pilot that the war has produced so far. In all this time he has only gotten one bullet in his machine, and that through a wing. He never seems to get himself in a tight corner."

If I recall correctly, the ace of SPA 73, Francois Battesti, also wrote very highly of Fonck in his memoir, according to Jon Guttman.

As noted previously, the apex of Fonck's career came in the summer and autumn of 1918, so he didn't have as many months to be lionized before the war's end as Guynemer and Nungesser did. After Guynemer died in September 1917 he was elevated to virtual sainthood, having burnt himself out and given his all for France. It's no wonder there are so many postcards of him and his SPAD VII which survives to this day. Fonck was much more of a professional, reserving his energy, flying frequently but cautiously, and attacking only when he had the advantage (that's not the mark of a coward but a canny professional).

Just my two cents' worth.

Greg VanWyngarden

[Bulldog90]

Gentlemen,

I thank you all for your viewpoints. It does seem as if my answer has as many facets of your learned responses. What initiated all of this was like Greg, I have only seen one postcard of Fonck.

My thought is that the lionization of French aces to the French people peaked in 1916, and ended with Guynemer's fall. Fonck is just getting going when the best of the Storks were already gone. Throw his conceited personality into the mix and its not hard to see why French journalists did not flock to his story. Also, as several of you mentioned, the majority of his victories come late in the war, when the public was sick of it all.

No one could ever match the commitment to the cause given by Guynemer, which makes his a better story. Fonk's enigmatic and difficult persona bothers me in the same way I feel when a great athlete turns out to be a colossal jerk.

Thanks Much,

Bulldog 90

BTW- Here's another twist on Fonck. Can any of us name another high scoring ace that got married in the middle of the war and survived??!

[Gregvan]

Sorry,

I tried to post the postcard but I can't get it to work.

As for Bulldog 90's last BTW question, Bishop got married during the war before his final return to the front, and survived the war. IMHO, both Bishop and Fonck were great at self-promotion (like Rickenbacker and many others), but there the similarity ends.

Greg

[Der Grüne Flieger]

Originally Posted by Southside Bucky

Hi guys.

It seems to me, everytime someone mentions Fonck on this forum, a crowd gathers to try to rip his reputation to pieces...Yet as far as I know, there's no proof of any kind that he ever collaborated with the Nazi's, only vague allegations which cite his pre war "Friendship" with Goering, (a fellow veteran WW1 pilot) as "evidence".

Originally Posted by Gregvan

Hi All,

Regarding the question that started this thread, I have one photo postcard of Fonck and I'm sure there were others. Perhaps just as noteworthy, there is considerable motion picture footage of Fonck shot by France's official propaganda cinematographers. He is shown suiting up and climbing into his SPAD, then flying off into the blue. There is also footage of Fonck practicing his marksmanship, being decorated, carrying the flag in the aforementioned victory parade, and even hobnobbing with star athletes at some wartime sporting venue. While many of France's aces were filmed, this degree of coverage is (IMHO) matched only by Guynemer and Nungesser. I also think that "La Guerre Aerienne" devoted considerable ink and photos to Fonck's exploits. He was hard to ignore, after all.

Bulldog 90,

I think Bucky and Greg got it just about right. Fonck was a marvel and I would say that he was absolutely one of the best. The problem is, unlike Guynemer, he didn't die giving his all for France.

Because he survived the war and was famous enough to still be written about, his foibles were revealed for all to see. He was human,... he may have been arrogant (who here would not be if we had his flying prowess) and he made a bad choice of friends. You have to remember France, like the US, needs to have it's heroes to be absolutely free of defects. They have to be perfect, in the air, in all social situations and live the life of a saint. This is an ideal that no one can live up to.

I've read his book, and some other articles about him. The impression I got from the book was the same as Bucky. He hated the Germans at the time, and always flew revenge flights to make up for the loss of a flyer. With regard to his friendship with Goring, I can't say much except that all wars have reconciliations, they are a natural part of the healing process. It may be true that he was in bed with the Germans during the interwar years but it's more likely he was a pawn of their propaganda machine, nobody knows for sure.

I also noted he wrote about the French aces that had better scores than him but not much about his flying colleagues. This was a book about a marvelous flyer and shot was Fonck. He seemed to have little interest or time for those of lesser skill.

In the end, he is not remembered well. Maybe that is a reputation he deserved, still you have to marvel at the record he compiled and the skills he possessed.

Phil

[Gregvan]

[Gregvan]

Hi,
Just thought I would note that there is yet another postcard of Fonck up for auction on ebay right now. It's different from the one I posted:


French WWI Ace Rene Paul Fonck 75 Victories Photo PCD - (eBay item 110165788733 end time Sep-22-07 12:45:00 PDT)

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Gentlemen:
To add to what has been written about Fonck anmd Rickenbacker, both used the same method of attack, diving from a greater altitude, fire at the target aircraft and keep on going with the advantage of airspeed from the dive escape and climb back to altitude for another attack or a new target. Neither stayed and fought a fight of maneuver and turn. A reporter asked Rickenbacker if he stayed and fought the attacked plane, Rickenbacker, replied,"No, he might be a better pilot than me!" Makes good sense.
Blue skies,
Dan-San