Who, What, & Where?

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by AZ Aviator

Regarding Foto #II, Harold Hartney, at that time the C.O. of the 27th Aero Squadron, is referring to 1/Lt. W.H. Plyler (27th Aero from 25 March 1918), who "had his engine shot out, crash landed, and was made prisoner" on 13 June 1918, so Plyler captured the geese prior to
that date. The 27th Aero geese mascots must have made pretty good sentrys in order to have survived through six months of war, plus Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners. And, as the two pictured geese appear to be in a compromised situation, with their buddies probably being prepared for dinner, it doesn't appear as if those two have attained "mascot" status. A good guess for the location of the Caudron G.III in Foto #13 would be the 2nd Aviation Instruction Center at Tours, over 65 miles northwest of Issoudun. Most of the rest of the Nieuport photos may well have been taken at the 3rd Aviation Instruction Center at Issoudun. However, the best photo may actually be the one of unarmed and uncamouflaged Nie. 28 THEDA BARA. This ship is shown in "The Nieuport 28C-1" Profile on p. 6, and has a painted serpent encircling the fuselage. If you look closely, you can see the serpent's head near the cockpit and tail close to the tailplane in Foto #III. Yes, Theda Bara was the leading film "vamp" of that period. In the Profile photo the tail stripes have been painted out. Mechanics of the 31st Aero Squadron were known to perform this sort of artwork on Issoudun trainers. I would surmise that the cowling and serpent are probably both red, the wheels probably factory brown, and it has retained its U.S. roundels under upper wing.:mellow

Hi AZ AVIATOR,

Thanks for dropping by and sharing the well researched information.
Sounds like the photographer was in Issoudon and also Tours, not impossible.

The two geese both look like they have a ribbon around the top of their necks, not to be confused with executioner's blindfolds.
I don't think they would have been brought to the butcher block with out firstly wringing their necks and plucking them of feathers, they seem pretty tame to me. Just my take on this one.
Probably both of them were running around eating chicken feathers while their little buddies were being plucked!


Foto #II



Foto #III

A strange mix! Nieuport 28, Nieport 24?, and an American Made (?) De Havilland D.H.4. When and Where would we find these three together?


Foto #IIIa

Looks like the Serpent's head with mouth open, facing forward, just above this fellow's right elbow, the tail can be seen wrapping around the aft part of the fuselage. Thanks for the information on this one and the colors.
Would it of been just bleached or unbleached linen on all of the flying surfaces before the 31st Aero Suadron "ARTIST" got a hold of it?


Foto #19 "HAMMING IT UP WITH A GOAT, CIRCA 1918"

The banner in the center says "BASEBALL 1918", the bottom characters look "GREEK" to me (3rd A*I*C)!
344? 544? 644 on the pennant covering the goat's back?
maybe a Division flag to the right of center? "SIGNAL CORPS"?
I wish I knew if these fotografs were before or after 11th November, 1918.
Did anyone have a goat for a mascot that we know of?



Foto #XX "WRECKAGE CRASHED BIPLANE #F1380, Ca 1918"



Foto #21 ""POSED WITH A BIPLANE, Circa 1918"


It's really a Morane Saulnier Parasol (monplane with upper wing!).

Thanks again for all of the information, Jay

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Cliff

A couple of notes on the pics.

Foto #XIV
JASTA 37 had black fuselages and black/white tail stripes under Udet.

foto #VIII & IX & Foto #10
The large black fuselage numbers are from an American flight training facility.

Foto #VI
#F1374, Circa 1918:

Sopwith Camel delivered to 3rd Aviation Instruction Centre, Issoudun by
22.7.18, the tail number F1368 is from another Camel also sent to Issoudun.

Foto # 15

"ISIS" Probably a Nieuport 27. Black fuselage and white skull & crossbones. A couple of Nieuports were marked similarly at Issoudun (at least three).

Cliff

Thanks Cliff, it's good to see similar information jive. Thanks for the well researched intel. Your information agrees with past and following replies. I'll post more fotos that need to bear out the 3rd Aviation Instruction Centre, Issoudun as the location.

Very Best Regards, Jay

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by FOKKERJ

I was hoping Dan-San Abbott and ONEALM would drop by and reply.

See I told you to just be patient!
I knew they would be kind enuogh to drop by.

Originally Posted by ONEALM

Stephen Lawson did a great article about the 31st Aero's "Billy Bones" marked Nieuports a while back in OtF. There are a few shots of the dark-fuselaged Nieuports therein. Can't recall if it's in the article, but it was certainly on the CD Stephen has for sale (a well invested bit of change I can tell you), that includes a nice full side profile photo fo the "ISIS" N. 24. It has a lighter colored tail that Stephen has interpreted as light gray, the fuselage as black.

There's another shot of the "Theda Bara" marked N.28 in the old Profile Publications #79 on the N.28. She was pretty risque - at least for 1917. Take a peek at her Cleopatra - which, judging by the snake motif on this Nieuport, is the role the boys were paying homage to.

Google Image Result for http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/
ThedaBaraCleopatraLarge.jpg/781px-ThedaBaraCleopatraLarge.jpg

Thanks ONEALM for the details.
Do you know if "BILLY BONES" was responsible for a couple of Nieuport Scouts sporting unusual paint jobs, one like a fish with scales and the other a bird with feathers????
I have both images (somewhere) compliments of the U.S Signal Corps (nice 8 x 10's + or -!).
I would like to see Stephen's work in the OtF and the C.D.
Don't go to far away, I'm not done with you!

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Gentlemen:
This is an Alb.D.V, from Jasta 37, the diagonal stripes on the tailplane is black and white. I believe this Albatros D.V was flown by Offz.Stv. Loewensen, who had joined Jasta 37 from Jasta 5. There were very many German aircraft on display along with the Alb.D.V as well as many German Artillery pieces.
This photo was taken at Place de la Concorde in the heart of Paris. displayed on the island in the Center of Place de la Concorde is an Obelisk, taken from Egypt by Napoleon.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Thanks Dan-San for weighing in. Everything seems to agree except the pilot.
This is as good a place as any.
Do you have any comments on the fuselage color or wing colors?
I look forward to your input.

What do you think about:
FOTO Nr.VII

Originally Posted by tcrean7828

Mates,
Thanks for the walk through and the pic's are great.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

Hi TC,

Your very welcome, the pleasure is mine to share.

Thanks again to everyone, Jay

[FOKKERJ]

Here's some more:

Foto #21 "No. 1405 OUTSIDE HANGARS, CIRCA 1918"

Do we recognize the scenery?

Foto #21a "No. 1405 OUTSIDE HANGARS, CIRCA 1918"

A two place with with the "VEE" struts canted or cambered out (bottom to top).
NOTE: Nice wash out on the aileron tips. I don't recall Nieuports as having wash out on the tips!


Foto #XXII "No. 1563, Ca. 1918"

A SPAD VII?


Foto #XXIII "Soldier in Nieuport 27 Biplane #451"

Soldier....HELL! That's just a kid!
The shadows make for some interesting camouflage!

Foto #NINE! "BIPLANES AT AIRSTRIP, Circa 1918"


More Later!

Later, FOKKERJ

[FOKKERJ]

BY THE WAY, THE NAME IS MAY....


Foto #25 "Captured German Biplane Fuselage"

It should read "TWO FUSELAGE OF CAPTURED GERMAN AIRCRAFT"

Foto #ELEVEN! "album - May"


Foto #XXVII "MEN IN GERMAN AIRPLANE FACTORY, Circa 1918"

I changed the above caption to read: "Americans in Repair Shop, Ca. 1918"

Foto #28 "NIEUPORT 28"


Foto #29

An AVRO 504K or J? See the landing ski between the wheels.

Foto #30 "THIS IS THE END"

It's late....zzzzzzz I would like to think that this is a De Havilland D.H. 4. Maybe an AVRO, whatever it is, it sure looks worn!

Thanks again for all of the input.

Ya'll come back now, ya hear? Jay

FOKKERJ

[ONEALM]

Jay -

According to the caption in a very small Issodun photo album I have, the "Flying Fish" was flown by a man named "Wallace" though I think Stephen has discovered differently. Maybe he'll drop in and correct this point.

There's a thread

Interesting Nieuport 17 picture

that discusses this Nieuport a bit.

If I recall correctly, Stephen L. has built a model of this airplane in these markings - just can't recall where I saw it.

Nice shots Jay, keep 'em coming....
Mike

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Gentlemen:
This is an Alb.D.V, from Jasta 37, the diagonal stripes on the tailplane is black and white. I believe this Albatros D.V was flown by Offz.Stv. Loewensen, who had joined Jasta 37 from Jasta 5. There were very many German aircraft on display along with the Alb.D.V as well as many German Artillery pieces.
This photo was taken at Place de la Concorde in the heart of Paris. displayed on the island in the Center of Place de la Concorde is an Obelisk, taken from Egypt by Napoleon.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Hi Dan-San,

While I believe that there were public displays of downed and captured aircraft throughout the war, was the "Place de la Concorde in the heart of Paris" displaying a quantity all or most of the time?
Or was this a dateable event near or after the Armistice?

I'm still trying to find a time line for these fotos, possibly that can be done by more S/N recognition, as I believe Cliff already provided(with out looking).

Thanks again, Jay

I went to see, here it is:

Originally Posted by Cliff

A couple of notes on the pics.

Foto #VI
#F1374, Circa 1918:


Sopwith Camel delivered to 3rd Aviation Instruction Centre, Issoudun by
22.7.18, the tail number F1368 is from another Camel also sent to Issoudun.A DATE!

Foto # 15

"ISIS" Probably a Nieuport 27. Black fuselage and white skull & crossbones. A couple of Nieuports were marked similarly at Issoudun (at least three).

Cliff

A DATE!

[Taz]

Jay- The odds are very good the German aircraft you show in storage are from the salvage facility at Romorrantin, France. At least a couple of hundred German aircraft were shipped from Romorrantin to the US in the 1919 timeframe, including two Fokker Dr.Is, Fokker E.Vs/D.VIIIs, nearly a hundred Fokker D.VIIs, SSW D.III/IVs, Pfalz D.XIIs, etc, etc. The engine from one of the E.Vs from Romorrantin(Ur.II No 2968 from E.V 108/18) is on diplay at the National Museum of the USAF.

Your new find would make a wonderful "From the Albums" article for OTF. Let em know if you are interested and we can collaborate on an article.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[Gregvan]

Hi FokkerJ,

Yes, the German aircraft which are displayed inside a large building in your photos are certainly at Romorantin, as Taz says. I obtained a few other nice photos of German a/c at Romorantin from this same seller.

The Jasta 37 Albatros D.V on display in Paris is very well-known from two widely circulated photos. You have one, here is the other:


It has long been speculated that this aircraft's original Jasta 37 pilot was OfzStv Löwensen, as Dan-San says. There was an Albatros D.V in Jasta 5 with an identical trefoil clover marking, and Löwensen is believed to have transferred from Jasta 5 to Jasta 37. However, it's long been a mystery as to who was actually flying this plane when it was shot down (Löwensen was not recorded as having been a PoW). Now, it seems Gilles has provided the answer with some exciting new information! Rick Duiven's latest update of Jasta records does indeed list a Ltn. Siegfried from Jasta 37, who was taken PoW on the date given by Gilles. As Gilles says, the fuselage of this (and other Jasta 37 Albatrosse) were black, and the tail stripes were black and white. The black fuselage had been added as an element of the unit's livery when under the command of Ernst Udet, though the black and white diagonal tail stripes predated Udet's arrival at the unit. Apparently some of the black D.V machines lasted a long time after Udet's departure.

Gilles, any possibility we could see that French painting of this aircraft that you describe? It would be VERY interesting.

As Dan-San says, there were many captured German a/c on display at the Place de la Concorde, along with many captured machine guns, artillery pieces, even a tank. During the Armistice celebrations, sadly, many of the German aircraft were literally ripped to pieces by souvenir hunters.

Greg

[Kilian]

Hi Jay.

Is that a 1563 or 1583?