Richthofen emblem

[frontflieger]

Hi,

here you'll find a gallery with different styles of the Coat-of-arms.

BTW the last one 'Manfred (General)' was the father of Wolfram Frhr. v. Richthofen.

Thorsten

[Thomas Trauner]

I´m anything but an expert for Luftwaffe WWII, but a hint to try to answer Rob´s question why JG 2 was named "Richthofen" and not JG 1 in 1939:
Simple:- JG 1 did not exist as a full Jagdgeschwader, there was just one Group, stationed at the German north sea cost to defend these area. One "famous" occasion was the decimation of a Wellington squadron, trying to fly into the "Deutsche Bucht" (German Bay) in full daylight in 1939

JG 1 was brought to full strenght and later called "Oesau", after it´s commander and leading ace Walter Oesau, who lost his life in a combat with P 38 in 1943.
Maybe JG 1 hat one of the last "kills" in WWII against the Western Allies, with probably bringing down a Thyphoon on 4th of May 45, using the He 162 Jet plane.

But I also wonder why the names of Boelke or Immelmann where not used in naming JGs in WWII. JG 3 was named "Udet" after his suicide (an "accident" in official press...) but I fear it hat more to do with his current role in the Luftwaffe and not too much with his deeds in the Fliegertruppen.
Immelmann, Boelke and Richthofen are names used by the Bundesluftwaffe, but no wonder that they see there "tradition" more in the WWI area....

Thomas

[frontflieger]

Hi,

the Bundeswehr (Army of Germany) and Bundesluftwaffe (Air Force of Germany nowadays) is forbidden to create/have any links to the Wehrmacht/ Luftwaffe of WWII.

Some German Units do have links to the Imperial Army... like the 'Guard' ("Wachbataillon") which links itself to the "1. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß".

The Geman Ministry of defens says: TEXT


... I think we should now better concentrate on the original question

Thorsten

[jastaflieger]

There is a current wing in the German AIr Force named after "Macky" Steinhoff, who had a big role int the iar force after WWII , but nonetheless was a WWII ace and a naval vessel , and i believe a squadron are named after Werner Molders.

[frontflieger]

Originally Posted by jastaflieger

There is a current wing in the German AIr Force named after "Macky" Steinhoff, who had a big role int the iar force after WWII , but nonetheless was a WWII ace and a naval vessel , and i believe a squadron are named after Werner Molders.

Steinhoff became General in the Bundesluftwaffe - and the Jagdgeschwader 74 lost the name Mölders in 2005

Thorsten

[Royalla]

As far as I know, the R emblem was originally designed on 1 May 1939 by Freiherr Adalbert von Rothkirch. It was painted on the planes but never worn on the pilots' overalls or uniforms.

A second version, still in use today (among other things the letter R became more prominent), was created after WW2, for the day JG 71 became "Jagdgeschwader Richthofen" (21 April 1961). On 19 April, Gerd Poelchau, Erich Hartmann and Rudolf Erlemann got started and in just three days, they designed it and had it carved in wood so it could adorn the lectern on Day X.

[Der Grüne Flieger]

Originally Posted by Rod_Filan

Here is the Richthofen family coat-of-arms in colour.
One is the sugar bowl and the other the gravy boat...or something like that.

Cheers
Rod

Rod,

Do you have any idea what the images in the heraldry means??

Phil

[Rod_Filan]

Good question Phil.

In heraldry terms the Richthofen crest is properly described as party per pale: dexter, per fess argent and gules, in chief an eagle's wing erect azure, in base a stalk in its vigilance of the first: sinister, or, a monk habited gules, seated in a chair sable and holding in the dexter hand a staff in pale argent. The shield ensigned with the coronet of a German Baron.
ref: [*]

I doubt that helps you much--it's a description but not an interpretation. I'll check into it further this evening.

Cheers
Rod

[Epee]

Originally Posted by Der Grüne Flieger

Rod,

Do you have any idea what the images in the heraldry means??

Phil

The common belief that heraldry "means" something is mistaken. Heraldry is more in terms of a family's trademark than a history; marks of honor/dishonor are probably the invention of writers or if they existed at all were limited to the person to/for whom they were presented. In some cases, particularly in designs after the high midddle ages devices were sometimes adopted based on the occupation/notarity/name of the person to whom the arms are being presented. The simpler the design/device, excluding quartering, the older the arms in general.

In the case of the von Richthofen arms; I understand that they were presented when the family was enobled in the 17th century and were judges. Perhaps the seated figure represents a judge.

[frontflieger]

Originally Posted by Epee

Perhaps the seated figure represents a judge.

The German word for judge is 'Richter', a court [law] means 'Gericht', and the building of a court is sometimes called 'Gerichtshof' (geRICHTsHOF[EN]).

Frontflieger