Richthofen emblem

[TeamStewart]

I always though that the nobility took the name of the land they owned, ie The Duke Of Edinburgh, Prince of Wales, etc.

So, wouldn't Freiherr (Baron) von Richtofen actually allude to a place called Richtofen, which may not be around today, but could be traced historically to when the title was first bestowed?

Just a thought.

Especially since the preposition von is used.

Wiki answers:

In Germany, there is the distinction between historic nobility (historischer Adel), i.e. knighted by a king or the Emperor and the citizen nobility (Bürgeradel), which derived their von from the pure description of a place of origin, e.g. Klaus Schmied von Ehringen (Klaus the Smith from Ehringen).

Historic nobility has the right to abreviate the von as v. (e.g. Lothar Freiherr v.Richthofen), whereas the citizen nobilty has to spell out the "von".

[Hans]

No Sir, sorry, this wiki is dead wrong. If there ever was a distinction between the 'nobles', then it was between the Hochadel (High Nobles) and the niederer Adel (lower Nobles), as far as we talk about the 19th and early 20th century.

Bürgeradel is a classic oxymoron, there were citizens (Bürger) and nobles (Adel), but never such a thing like Bürgeradel. The upper class citizens alway tried to act like the nobility and they where allowed to carry coat-of-arms, but they never where allowed to name them 'von'.

Nowadays there could be the false impression to have Bürgeradel, as there are a lot of citizens which carry a 'von' in their name. But, remember, there was a revolution in 1918 and the nobility was completely abonded ( ok, some of them did not notice this even in 2008, but trust me, there was a revolution). Nowadays the 'von' is part of the name, not more or less.

H

[lonestarson]

I think that the Rittmeister had several of his personal possessions marked with the monagram MvR. The book "The Day the Red Baron Died" by P.J. Carisella has some pictures.

[potez xxv]

Originally Posted by lonestarson

I think that the Rittmeister had several of his personal possessions marked with the monagram MvR. The book "The Day the Red Baron Died" by P.J. Carisella has some pictures.

Yes, I read about auction of Carisella collection, and there they mention this:

Embroidered handkerchief; initials MVR; worn at time of death; 19 1/2 inches by 19 inches; $23,000.

Anyone have picture?

[Royalla]

Always at your service

I wish I could invite you to have a look at the original but I am not from New Zealand and I am not a movie director either...