Charles "Billy" Cudemore

[avro]

Billy Cudemore was my grandfather. An ace with MC and DFC by the age of 21 and a survivor, he continued to fly after The War. I am interested in information about his flying exploits after The War and his post-war life.

[RussGannon]

Avro

I'll tell you one thing - as some one who is in to who was shooting at who, I'm pretty certain he was the pilot who shot down the Jasta 11 ace Ltn Neiderhoff on 28 Jul 17!

Cheers Russ

[RussGannon]

Avro

You may or may not know this. On 28 Jul 17 Cudemore was part of a 5 machine escort of a 21 Sqn RE8, when at about 1100 over Gheluveldt they were attacked by two formations of Albatros Scouts: each given as 9 strong. 29 Sqn lost 2lt JK Campbell MIA (KIA). Interestingly there are two identical German claims that were credited for this loss - one by Ltn Adam of Js 6 as his 9th vic and the other by Ltn Schmidt of Js 3 as his 8th - both given as Becelaere 1210 (1110 British time). In return Cudemore crashed an Albatros Scout which well matches the loss of Ltn Niederhoff Js 11 - kia w.Terhand at 1200 (1100 British time) - all locations in close proximity.

Indeed whilst the British routinely overclaimed (easy to do when fighting over enemy territory), there were quite two 'confirmed' German claims on this date for each British loss over their side! My feeling is that the tide in the air had changed - 6 Jasta pilots were killed in the Ypres area on this date alone - and one suspects there was a need to maintain the 'impression' that the German Air Service was still in the ascendancy!

Cheers Russ.

[Frank_Olynyk]

Avro,
Can you supply any information on his date and place of death? It is not listed in his entry in the aces list on this website.

Frank.

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Bonjour mes amis

Charles W. Cudemore was born on the 19th of November 1897 in Essex (according to Shores, Franks, Guest in Above The Trenches), but, no listing of death is given ... perhaps he was still alive when the book was published ...

Apparently Cudemore was flying in Canada by 1920. He participated in the Trans-Canada Flight of 1920 which was an effort by the Air Board to conduct a survey of the country to determine the feasibility of air operations throughout the nation. Cudemore is known to have flown D.H.9, registration G-CYAJ on a route (or routes) between Winnipeg, Manitoba and Saskatoon, Saskatchewan in the company of a sergeant by the name of Young.

I will have a look about to see if any more can be gleaned ...

Salut!
Kirk

[Graeme]

Following on from Russ' post, the entry in RFC Communique No 99 states that seven machines of 29 Squadron attacked five Albatros scouts painted red. 2nd Lt J K Campbell shot down one out of control, and Sgt Bathurst destroyed one. 2nd Lt W C Cudemore fired into an Albatros scout at close range and it was seen to break up in the air, then crash.

Graeme

[RussGannon]

Graeme

Thanks for that mate. I'll double check the SRB entry, for as I have it, Sgt Hervey-Bathhurst made his claim in a fight at 1920 over Ypres, when a 4 machine 'inner patrol' had a scrap with 3 Albatross scouts. Maybe some crossed wires here.

None the less the Communique makes it pretty clear that Cudemore put paid to Niederhoff.

Cheers to all Russ

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Bonjour tous

"Billy" Cudemore flew D.H.9A GCYAJ, one of several of the type to participate in the trans-Canada flights of 1920. The aircraft was just one of the Imperial Gifts to Canada having been E998 which had been assigned to 110 Squadron based at Kenley. The aircraft was ultimately struck off charge in 1927.

G-CYAJ photographed with an unidentified airman.



G-CYAJ photographed at Camp Borden in Ontario



Charles "Billy" Cudemore, left, and A.K. Tylee, right, who was the commanding officer of the Canadian Air Force from 1920 to 1921 with a D.H.9A in Calgary, Alberta in 1920 when participating in the trans-Canada survey.



Information about G-CYAJ may be found in The D.H.4/D.H.9 File by Sturtivant and Page while reference to Cudemore is made in The Creation of a National Air Force by Douglas.

[josquin]

Dissenting from Kirk Lowry and his source (Franks et al.),
Charles William Cudemore was born at Derby, Derbyshire,
England, not in Essex. Derby is given as his birthplace on
his Royal Aero Club Certificate, No. 9165 (12 June 1930);
he is listed on the RAC card as "ex-R.A.F.," residing at
Portman Square, London. Derby is also where his birth was
registered in December, 1897, and where his father's
marriage was registered in 1892 (Charles Hutchinson Cudemore,
born at Poplar, London, in 1864). His birth registration lists
"William Charles Cudemore"; evidently he adopted "Charles
William" later, unofficially, and he is so listed by the R.A.F.
in 1918 and the Royal Aero Club in 1930. I have no
information regarding his death.

Josquin

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Bonjour josquin!

Well, that is interesting ... I have noted more than once that there is debate about just where British airmen were born ... "Mick" Mannock in particular. Why would that be ... could there have been a practice whereby place of birth and registration of birth could be two different locales? I wonder what the source of the birth place of Cudemore used by Shores, Franks, Guest was.

Nonetheless, the data you provide certainly has the air of authenticity.

Perhaps avro can offer some detail.

Salut!
Kirk