The names of two German pilots

[Captain JT]

Gentlmen do we know if any of these five pilots "now in the frame" were flying in a Fokker D.VII and can anyone on the forum confirm if any of them crashed on the allied side of the lines?

James

[Jagdstaffel6]

All 5 Pilots where flying the Fokker D.VII but where they crashed, I cant say, sorry

[xjouve]

Leutnant Kurt Schibilsky of Jasta 10 taken pow (place unknown)

Well, Jasta 10 was located at Frescaty (south of Metz). OfStv Aue claimed a Spad over Montfaucon-d'Argonne which is north-west of Verdun at 11h30 this day.
I'd guess Schibilsky was patroling the same area than Aue. In fact, the French DCA claimed 3 Fokkers DVII on this date in the Argonne sector; and I won't be surprised if Schibilsky was one of those. It fits very well.

Unteroffizier Paul Podbiol of Jasta 40 Killed in Acton at Menin, Wervik

Menin (east of Wervik) is just too far from St-Quentin (or lets say Beaurevoir): about 110km north.

Leutnant Ernst Baumgärtel of Jasta 56 Killed in Action at Gheluvelt

Same here. ~ 115km north of St-Quentin.

[frontflieger]

Originally Posted by Jagdstaffel6

Leutnant Kurt Schibilsky of Jasta 10 taken pow (place unknown)
Leutnant Hermann Silberschmidt of Jasta 22 kiled in Action at Flavigny le Grand
Unteroffizier Paul Podbiol of Jasta 40 Killed in Acton at Menin, Wervik
Leutnant Ernst Baumgärtel of Jasta 56 Killed in Action at Gheluvelt
Leutnant Hermann Tölke of Jasta 79 wounded at 10:45am Lehaucourt.

Aerodromes of these Jasta were:

Jasta 10: Metz-Frescaty (Alsace - far away);
Jasta 22: Guise - Flavigny le Grand well behind German lines;
Jasta 40: Bisseghem (Flanders - far away);
Jasta 56: Croulshouten (somewhere in Flanders - far away);
Jasta 79 b: Chevresis-Monceau (south-east of St. Quentin!!)

Lehaucourt (Jasta 79 b) and Flavigny le Grand (Jasta 22) are both well behind German lines.

Thorsten

[Captain JT]

Ok I have some more information to add which may help, one or both of the pilots was Prussian.

Which Jagdstaffeln units / pilots could I rule out?

James

[frontflieger]

Originally Posted by Captain JT

if any of them crashed on the allied side of the lines?

None!

[Captain JT]

None?

Are they all still in the running?

James

[Rick]

Originally Posted by RussGannon

Capt JT
There are some 18 RAF fighter pilot claims this general area on this date - 24 Sqn, 3 Sqn, 87 Sqn, 80 sqn, 85 Sqn & 54 Sqn.

Capt. JT:
As Russ has pointed out there where 18 RAF claims, including the two by Hazell, and a severe shortage of recorded German losses on this date. I think trying two pin any two to Hazell is an exercise in frustration. You seem to have discovered one, better than most RAF claims for any given day. I'd consider my self lucky, take it and run. R.

[Captain JT]

The reason for trying so very hard to pin this one down is that I have part of one of the two Fokker D.VII's and the pilots badge.

James

[R Gannon]

To all.

Capt Hazell was part of an 8 strong patrol that first engaged 3 Fok DVII at 1140 near Fresnoy. Hazell sent the rear man down OOC - which was later upgrade to crashed by 46 Sqn - who saw a Fokker crash E Beaurevior. Capt Longton & Lt Bisonette drove down the leader.

10 min later the 24 Sqn boys went to aid of 3 SE5's of 85 Sqn under attack from 8 Fok DVII - the loc given is Bernot.
Hazell first drove a blue tail DVII off tail of an SE5, he then attacked one of three Fokker's on tail of another SE5 - this turned on its back and went down OOC from 7,000 ft and was still spinning at 1,000 ft cfm by Lts Southey, Harries & Bloom. Southy also drove and blue & pink DVII down. Lt Crossen also had indecisive engagement with a blue DVII whilst driving down another which was attacking an SE5.

The opposition were clearly Js 2 & Js 36 of JGIII - 85 Sqn loosing 3 SE5's (c1200) to Baumer & Basenge of Js 2 & Hubner of Js 36. As all well read readers will know js 36 had blue tails and cowls. Note times matched on this date.

No known losses of course - but I would never rule out forced landings that are not to be found in much of the surviving German record. I've pointed out before for example; that Js 36 had two forced landings on 8 Aug 18 which one will not find in what is presently in print.

Bernot is somewhat south of locs given for claims by JG III and I'm supicious that 24 Sqn record got locs back the front - that first fight was Bernot (not too far from Guise) and the major scrap was at Fresnoy le Grand - which is in line with JG III claims.

Someone asked whether Js 79 were flying DVII's - well Rick has done a nice article on Js 79 for C&C Int 26/3 which shows comprehensivly with lovely photo, that Js 79 were using DVII's this juncture.

Rick has it though that Tolke went to hospital - we must not take 'Lightly wounded remained with the Truppe' too literal - it only means they remained on the units books, as a full recovery was to be expected within a relatively short time.

Cheers Russ