The names of two German pilots

Captain JT · 22 January 2009, 12:26 PM

Can anyone help me?

I am looking for the names of two German pilots. Both of them were flying Fokker D.VII's and both were shot down on the 4th October 1918, east of Beaurevoir, thats the one east of Saint-Quentin.

Am I right in beliving that if they came down east of Beaurevoir on this date, they will have ended up on the allied side of the lines?

In addition to this which units could they have come from?

Any help or ideas on this would be very handy
James

frontflieger · 23 January 2009, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain JT

Can anyone help me?

I am looking for the names of two German pilots. Both of them were flying Fokker D.VII's and both were shot down on the 4th October 1918, east of Beaurevoir, thats the one east of Saint-Quentin.

Am I right in beliving that if they came down east of Beaurevoir on this date, they will have ended up on the allied side of the lines?

In addition to this which units could they have come from?

Any help or ideas on this would be very handy
James

Hi,

I found only one Jasta-pilot who mit match: Lt. Hermann Tölke of Jasta 79 b was wounded in action at Le Haucourt (half the way between St. Quentin and Beaurevoir). I can not say if he was flying a Fokker D VII.

Thorsten

Captain JT · 23 January 2009, 08:42 AM

Thank you Thorsten, do you know what happened to this Lt Herman Tolke?

More importantly did he crash and was he taken prisoner by the British?

Do you have any ideas where I could find out more information about these two pilots shot down on the 4th October.

You see I have a British pilot with two confirmed Folkker D.VII kills on this date.

Regards
James

xjouve · 23 January 2009, 09:19 AM

Ltn Hermann Silberschmidt, Jasta 22, was killed at Flavigny which is in fact east of St-Quentin, but defnitely not close to it (about 25km east).

As said by frontflieger, Ltn Hermann Tölke, Jasta 79b was wounded over Lehaucourt which is 6.5km north of St-Quentin and 8.5km south of Beaurevoir (which is actually not east, but north of St-Quentin). He remained with his unit.

What kind of claims are these 2 victories?

Captain JT · 23 January 2009, 10:48 AM

OK Gentlemen

The pilot left Cappy on the morning of the 4th October, he flew over St-Quentin then headed north and on to Beaurevoir. I have looked at "Multimap" and I think this is Beaurevoir, Aisne. East of here he shot down two Folkker D.VII's at around midday. At some time the pilot retrieved parts from one of the crashed planes.

Both Folkker D.VII's are listed as distroyed.

James

R Gannon · 23 January 2009, 04:40 PM

Capt JT

Can you supply name of the pilot? Not Capt TF Hazell perhaps??? There are some 18 RAF fighter pilot claims this general area on this date - 24 Sqn, 3 Sqn, 87 Sqn, 80 sqn, 85 Sqn & 54 Sqn.

Concur with two losses noted by xjouve & Frontflieger. I have Tolke as possible victim of 3 Sqn. As noted Flavigny is well to the east leaving me to suspect that this might reflect a field hospital where Silberschmidt DOW.

Of course extant German loss lists are far from complete - particularly in regards forced & crash landings.

Cheers Russ

Captain JT · 23 January 2009, 04:59 PM

Yes Russ the pilot in question is Captain

Thomas Falcon Hazell DSO, MC, DFC & bar from 24 Sqn.

James

xjouve · 24 January 2009, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussGannon

Concur with two losses noted by xjouve & Frontflieger. I have Tolke as possible victim of 3 Sqn. As noted Flavigny is well to the east leaving me to suspect that this might reflect a field hospital where Silberschmidt DOW.

Excellent guess.

Germans military hospitals have been installed at Flavigny since August 1914. They had a cemetery there for soldiers whom died of wounds (especially within 1915 to 1917): most of them during the battle against the Frenchies at "le chemin des dames" (north-east of Soissons to north-west of Reims) within April to October 1917.
Others died consequently to the German spring offensive of 1918 and then to the Allied counter-offensive, and so on until early November.

frontflieger · 24 January 2009, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussGannon

... might reflect a field hospital where Silberschmidt DOW....

Hermann Silberschmidt rests on the German Cemetery Flavigny-le-Petit (Frankreich) . Endgrablage: Block 2 Grab 321

A hint to the hospital-version I think.

BTW Hazell claimed TWO Fokker D VII within 10 minutes!

Thorsten

Jagdstaffel6 · 24 January 2009, 06:07 AM

on Oktober 4th 1918

Following Pilots:

Leutnant Kurt Schibilsky of Jasta 10 taken pow (place unknown)

Leutnant Hermann Silberschmidt of Jasta 22 kiled in Action at Flavigny le Grand

Unteroffizier Paul Podbiol of Jasta 40 Killed in Acton at Menin, Wervik

Leutnant Ernst Baumgärtel of Jasta 56 Killed in Action at Gheluvelt

Leutnant Hermann Tölke of Jasta 79 wounded at 10:45am Lehaucourt.

I hope this helps you

so long