Jenin memorial

Bill Woerlee · 28 February 2009, 03:53 PM

On the memorial at Jenin for German Pilots, the following names appear.

I am wondering if someone is able to render the ranks on the left from the abbreviation to the full rank and perhaps push the friendship a tad bit more and the English equivalent.

Gefreiter Wrede, Fl Abt 303 Gest 13 October 1917
Flieger Schuchert, Fl Abt 303 Gef 13 November 1917
Flieger Wilop, Fl Abt 303 Gef 13 November 1917
Leutnant von Chamier, Fl Abt 303 Vermissten 19 February 1918
Offz Meyer, FlugzF , Fl Abt 303 Gef 19 February 1918
Offz Rissmann, J ST 1 Gef 2 April 1918
Offz StellV Hampe, J ST 1 Vermissten 8 April 1918
Lt d Res Botzow, J ST 1 Gef 28 April 1918
Lt d Ru StaffelFM Herdirks, J ST 1 Vermissten 4 May 1918
Lt FRHR von Kunsberg, J ST 1 Gef 8 June 1918
Lt d LI Ernert, Fl Abt 301 Gef 1 October 1918

Thanks

Bill

Kilian · 28 February 2009, 05:58 PM

This memorial was refurbished by a palestinian bank not long ago. Do you have a photo of the names by any chance? I was looking for one about a year ago but only found one which i could not post here (copyrights etc) and now i can't find it any more on my computer

crankcase · 1 March 2009, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Woerlee

On the memorial at Jenin for German Pilots, the following names appear.

I am wondering if someone is able to render the ranks on the left from the abbreviation to the full rank and perhaps push the friendship a tad bit more and the English equivalent.

Gefreiter Wrede, Fl Abt 303 Gest 13 October 1917
Flieger Schuchert, Fl Abt 303 Gef 13 November 1917
Flieger Wilop, Fl Abt 303 Gef 13 November 1917
Leutnant von Chamier, Fl Abt 303 Vermissten 19 February 1918
Offz Meyer, FlugzF , Fl Abt 303 Gef 19 February 1918
Offz Rissmann, J ST 1 Gef 2 April 1918
Offz StellV Hampe, J ST 1 Vermissten 8 April 1918
Lt d Res Botzow, J ST 1 Gef 28 April 1918
Lt d Ru StaffelFM Herdirks, J ST 1 Vermissten 4 May 1918
Lt FRHR von Kunsberg, J ST 1 Gef 8 June 1918
Lt d LI Ernert, Fl Abt 301 Gef 1 October 1918
Thanks
Bill

It's Sunday and I guess most of the North Americans are still in bed, so let me take a stab at this request...
Gefreiter = Private
Flieger = Pilot
Leutnanat = Lieutenant
Offz = Officer
Offz StellV[ertretend] = Officer "representative" (not sure our functional equivalent)
Lt d[er] Res[erve] = Reserve Lieutenant
Lt d Ru = ???
Lt FRHR[Freiherr] = Lieut. Baron
Lt d RI = ???
...and the other notations are:
Gest[orben] = Died
Vermissten = Missing
Gef[allen] = Fallen (though I hope I haven't created confusion and misread this, but I don't think a memorial would record dates of capture... Gef[angen] = Captured)
I'll leave the fine-tuning to others!
marc

crankcase · 1 March 2009, 03:42 AM

= Lieutenant.
pardon me, marc

Bill Woerlee · 1 March 2009, 04:36 AM

Marc

Mate, thanks - I am a heck of a lot further than I was this morning.

Cheers

Bill

Australian Light Horse Studies Centre
Australian Light Horse Studies Centre

Bill Woerlee · 1 March 2009, 04:59 AM

Mates

I have just worked out how to upload an image - sorry it took so long but the technology is way too hard for an old fellow like me.

Here is the inscriptions on the memorial for German pilots at Jenin.

Quote:

Gef[allen] = Fallen (though I hope I haven't created confusion and misread this, but I don't think a memorial would record dates of capture... Gef[angen] = Captured)

I am not quite sure one way or the other. Many were captured and a popular farewell with the German pilots was: "See you at Heliopolis."

However, the heading does say "Dead and Missing" so I can assume it does mean Gefallen as opposed to Gefangen.

One last thing - does anyone know if there is an online service similar to the British CWGC or the French "Les morts pour la France de la guerre" which has a searchable database for German and Kuk soldiers? German would be great and adding Kuk would be a bonus.

Cheers

Bill

Australian Light Horse Studies Centre

Froggy · 1 March 2009, 06:16 AM

Hello Bill

here on the excellent site of Thorsten you will find most of the pilots name
we can see on your photo, with more details (though death dates sometimes dont fit ?)

www.frontflieger.de - Die Soldaten der deutschen Fliegertruppe 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918 Erster Weltkrieg

(cemetery section)

Thorsten should be interested by your post to complete his list

Another site like GWGC

Gräbersuche | Suchanfrage

In german too and I think you must be registered

Cordialement
Bruno

Kilian · 1 March 2009, 06:28 AM

Hi Bill here is my view of the things

translations and comments are in brackets:

- Gefreiter [Private] Wrede, FA [Fliegerabteilung] 303, died 13.Oct 1917
>
- Flieger [Pilot] Schuchert, FA [Fliegerabteilung] 303, fallen 09.Nov 1917 [date not readable, info taken from frontflieger.de]
>
- Flieger Wilop, FA [Fliegerabteilung] 303, fallen 09. Nov 1917 [date not readable, info taken from frontflieger.de]
>
- Leutnant von Chamier, FA 303, missing in action, 19.Feb 1918
>
- Unteroffizier [Corporal] Meyer, Flugzeugführer [Pilot], FA 303, fallen 19 Feb 1918
>
Unteroffizier [Corporal] Rissmann, Jagdstaffel 1[F], fallen 02. Apr 1918
>
- Offizierstellvertreter [warrant officer] Hampe Jasta 1, missing in action 08 Apr 1918
>
-Leutnant der Reserve Botzow[Boetzow] [reserve Lieutetant], Jasta 1, fallen 28. Apr 1918
>
-Leutnant der Reserve und Staffelführer[flight leader] [Meierdirks, Karl:info taken from frontflieger.de, name on the memorial is messed up maybe from the refurbishment], Jasta 1, missing 04.May 1918
>
Leutnant Freiherr von Künsberg[, FA 303, fallen 08. June 1918
>
- Leutnant der Reserve Ernert, FA 301, fallen 01.October 1918

Some of the data on the memorial may be wrong, the " " are quite confusing. IF the unit was FA 303 in all these cases or Jasta 1 I dunno. Also it seems there were some mistakes made when they restored the thing because they could not read the original date numbers properly any more.

Bill Woerlee · 1 March 2009, 01:32 PM

Kilian

Mate, thanks heaps for that - it is much appreciated.

Having discovered the memorial for myself, I am keen to have the various members remembered a tad bit better than some vague notations in a city difficult to access. I am aiming to place their bio's on my website if I can find them. I will send you an email about the content.

Bruno

Thanks for those sites. In the past I have already tried:

Gräbersuche | Suchanfrage

It is an excellent site for the Western Front but I have yet to find anyone who was in Palestine mentioned on that site. I have names and dates when KIA and not one has shown up.

I was hoping if there was something a bit more substantive as obscure locations like the mid east only had minimal engagement by everyone except Russia [no records], Turkey [bare records], Britain [passable], Australia [excellent] and New Zealand [fair]. Other nations like France, Italy, Austria and Germany sent forces along but have kept very poor records about their involvement. Italian records are difficult but Kuk are next to impossible.

Sorry for the whinge.

Cheers

Bill

Australian Light Horse Studies Centre

Kilian · 1 March 2009, 03:52 PM

Can we use your photo of the memorial on frontflieger.de ? I will contact Thorsten (webmaster of that site) maybe he has something to add to this list