Karl Allmenröder

[Alan]

I'm a little confused on the accounting of his death. *According to one report, Ray Collishaw supposedly singled Allmenröder out after shooting down Gerald Nash of same Black Flight a day earlier. *It was stated that he (Collishaw)went after a green striped machine and exacted his revenge.

From what I've seen, Allmenröder flew a red DIII with a white spinner. *The upper portion of the wings were in the green/purple scheme although, IMO, they weren't really striped, per se.

Collishaw also claims that an all-red DIII was seen about 2000' above the fracas (he presumed it was MvR) and did nothing to avenge Collishaw shooting Allmenröder down.

According to Kilduff, MvR was not flying the day Allmenröder was killed and was in Hamburg.

While the dates for Allmenröder's death line up with Collishaw's accounting, his description of his victim is a little confusing, to me, especially when Allmenröder's DIII was predominately red as well. *

And since he ( Allmenröder ) was in command of the Jasta at that time, who was flying high cover?

[Barrett]

The times don't coincide with Allmenroder's death and Collishaw's claim, according to Norman Franks. There's also ample evidence that Allmenroder was downed by AA fire.
Additionally, far too much is made of personal aircraft. Anybody could fly anybody else's bird if maintenance or other concerns arose.

[Alan]

Great, thanks. *I forgot that Kilduff also mentioned AA fire...Which Franks tome has that accounting, btw?

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Alan:
Ltn. Karl Allmenröder was flying Alb.D.III 629/17.
the upper surface was painted in light greyish green and olive green. The rust brown had been stopped. The spinner and 300mm back were white as well as the elevator. The fuselage, struts, stabilizer and wheel covers were red. The red was thinly painted over the fuselage and rudder crosses.
blue skies,
Dan-San

[MikeW]

Collishaw never made a claim, it's all trumped up rubbish. Allmenroder was probably hit by AA.


mike

[Alan]

Perfect. *Thanks much. *the picture is a lot clearer thanks to you gentlemen.

[Brotrob]

Hello everybody,

can anyone tell me if the colour-profile of 629/17 mentioned by Dan-San and published in the Osprey "Aircraft of the aces" is based on a foto or just on acounts ? Couse the only foto I know of this bird shows just the fuselage with Carl in the Cocpit, the white nose and elevator cant be seen.
So does anyone know a foto which affirms the white painted parts ?

Thank you very much !

Brotrob

[R Pope]

To expand on Mikew's missive, Collishaw never claimed to have shot down Allmenroder, that story got started after Nash was released from captivity. Collishaw never confirmed (or denied) it, to my knowledge.

[MikeW]

R Pope,

I can see you have never read Collishaw's book "Air Command".


There were no claims made by Collishaw on the day of Allmenröder's death, it was not until years later that the "legend" started and Collishaw then managed to convince himself that he'd fired a lucky long rang shot.

Collishaw's log book was/is completely useless, he never bothered to keep it up to date. When he wrote Air Command (with Dodds) the log book was used as the basis for much of the day to day events - in consequence, the book has many errors - the greatest of which in the speculative long shot that is supposed to have downed Allmenröder.

Collishaw was a strange chap, a talented leader takeing good care of his men, but totally oblivious to his own safety in combat - "Bull in a china shop" comes to mind - that's probably why he got shot down so many times. His CO wrote in his memoirs that Colly inevitably came back with his triplane full of holes.

Very interested in WW1 aviation history, Collishaw unfortunately would not give up a theory once it was proven to be fantasy - the Allmenröder case is one incidence, check out Colly's views on Voss's death if you want a real howler (find it in The Fighting Triplanes and also September Evening).

Mike

[Rick]

Originally Posted by MikeW

check out Colly's views on Voss's death if you want a real howler (find it in The Fighting Triplanes and also September Evening).

Mike

Amen to that! R.