Ltn Joeph Jacobs and the quest for the 2nd DEVIL image

[van der Laan]

While there is some space there, on my aircraft I am installing a small box back there hidden by the canvas to put my compressed air bottle for a reserved start on the M14. Without the box, I would fear the result of all those Aeronca pilots we've read about who found out the hard way what a lose seat belt can do

I figured the thing had to be somewhere it could be easily wound up and turned on and off by the ground crew. You have to pull the guts out of it to tear off the slip of graph paper, so it would yanked quite a bit, as there is only enough paper for a single 2 hr flight or so.

[van der Laan]

Well, back to the aircraft I know and love: it's all JJ and all DR1.

On a number of occasions posters have asked in this thread and in others "how do you know its 470-17?" Well, I don't!

After collecting and looking at countless images from various sources like C&C and such, plus all the books from Irmie to Leaman to O'Connor, it seems I am in good company. I do not think anyone knows for sure because for any given photo the sources are all over the place with regard to these two aircraft.

That said, I reason that the 450/17 plane is more often mentioned, regardless of photo only when there is no DENT in the cowling. So therefore I assume the dented one is 470/17, but who really knows?

If you've ever built a DR1 or just removed the cowling on one already built you realize if all the cowlings in the Jasta were painted black, there's a good chance that this dented cowling ended up on more than one Triplane over time, except for the fact that the DATA PLATE on the DR1 t was its only real identity after being painted and repainted and that data plate was located on the left side of the cowling. My guess is the cowling and its plate were an important part of crash forensics and they did not under any circumstances trade out cowlings. If this is the case, then I assume that the bird pictured all too often with no devil image and a dented cowl is our 45=70/17 bird. Without a second image of 450/17 preferably from the front, we may never know.

Until then it’s too close to using WHALE FLUKES and the weight of its empirical evidence is subject to question.

but lets look a little closer and the middle photo a bit ...

[van der Laan]

If you look closely at the picture above: just to the left of the person on the far left….. What’s that on the fuselage?

Why it looks strangely like someone has over painted a previously existing image with a not quite opaque black in an attempt to hastily cover the empennage. The shape and almost the tones can be discerned but not quite.

My “tilting at windmills” drove me to color the outline left by the rise in the surface from the previous image. Fit’s nicely but it’s all conjecture.

Here is my same treatment of the front of the fuselage:

Just tilting at windmills??? Hmmmmmm.

[Tim West]

Again cool thread and pics.

Some painted cowlings had their data plates un painted, so indeed it may have been of importance to keep them straight but as much as other parts of the airframe were marked, would not one assume the tubular frame was marked as well? That part of the plane would have remained as shipped. Also the zak plate in the top wing, appears to remain in tack after crashes. And I bet they could cross reference the spandaus and engines serial numbers back to a particular airframe. So one might assume that cowlings might have been swapped from time to time.

Just say'in

Anyhow....thanks for the great pics

[Tim West]

lol..isnt there always some guy standing in the way

[van der Laan]

Originally Posted by Tim West

lol..isnt there always some guy standing in the way

I have a whole album of concert photos from the 80s and it’s the same story: always someone between me and the target. It’s not Ozzy to your friends unless they can see him 

The more things change….the more they stay the same.

[karrart]

Yep, there's something in the murk!
Robert Karr
OLD BIRDS STAYING ALIVE - THE AVIATION ART OF ROBERT KARR

[Cigogne]

There IS a second image that shows a portion of the winged devil/hexe insignia. It is the photo that shows the front 3/4 view closeup of the engine, part of the cowling, and looking back at the fuselage. The focus of the photograph is to show "Granatschlitter" (shrapnel) damage to the propeller. However, looking beyond that you can see the shape of the insignia although it isn't detailed like in the well known photograph we all know and love. I don't have a print of this, but have seen good printed portions that show this.

[van der Laan]

Cigogne

Post it and let's have a look!

Thats what this thread is for, or at least tell us where it is and we'll start talking to them. Have you seen it yourself? Did you see the image with in it, under the bullet ridden propellor,?

Thanks for the heads up though.

[Hal Oele]

Hi Folks,

clipped from a full image of the "GON"
Flugpatz Rumbeke, 4. April 1918

Hal