Ltn Joeph Jacobs and the quest for the 2nd DEVIL image

MicroSculpt · 28 April 2009, 06:11 AM

van der Laan:

I think this is a most excellent idea! You have my support.

I voiced the same sort of concept a while ago concerning images of German printed polygon fabrics. Who knows what new discoveries will reveal themselves simply by having a comprehensive collection of images to compare!

I offer my assistance in whatever capacity you would deem useful.

Tom

Laserlloyd · 28 April 2009, 07:41 AM

One of the reasons I had started my study of the Fokker Dr.I on my site was to put together all the known photos of the Dr.I for everyone and in hope of people would also share what they had. From the time I had started my research site only an few had offer to share there photos. If I look at the past year no one has done this and I just don't see the contribution of others to increase.

I have received more from my personal contacts as this does have more impact as I also share with them photos I have. To me this has been a better way of obtaining better quality and new photos. To all my friends that have shared I have to thank them for there support.

I do believe that "Quid pro quo" is a helpful hand in obtaining new photos as this has work out better for me.

Lloyd...

CWatson · 28 April 2009, 10:02 AM

First I would like to thank you for posting the high quality scans of JJ, his comrades and Triplanes. I love your idea and wonder how many of the repeated arguments would be put to rest and others born from a few photos. Oh the thought of the Rosseta Stones out there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by van der Laan

I understand some of the reasons people want to possess and keep photos to themselves. I know from personal experience that there are countless photos I purchased of German aircraft back in 1979 from an estate say in Austin, TX. I am so damn lazy, and because there are no Triplanes in the collection, I’ve never scanned them, it is unfair of me to keep them to myself but I paid a lot of money for them and feel a sense of loss if I just give them away. As such, I understand why a lot of folks do not post some of their pictures…..but when you’ve already scanned them in?

Quote:

If anyone is interested we can start a new thread and mark the beginnings of that effort, I have a particular pile of pictures in mind that could be used to jumpstart this effort, and once that effort catches fire, I feel that most collectors would open their collections to it in the long run, especially since they can keep their original photos in their desk drawer while contributing

It is great you are willing to lead by example but fear many of the people that hold and own those elusive treasures are not the type to contribute to your data base. Example :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal Oele

Hi Folks,
clipped from a full image of the "GON"
Flugpatz Rumbeke, 4. April 1918 Hal

This post only taunts those interested in by all acounts a honorable man who fought for his country in a big part of world history. Why go through the effort of scanning a picture then cropping to tease someone who asked a question about this very image on the side of this very plane, show the area known and secret away the answer, why post?. Instead of chopping and showing the front portion and save the complete image for the special secret society of history hoarders (SSSoHH) post the part not in question .I guess some would like to remember German military history only by the atrocities of WWII.

I thought in the past the hiding of history was for commercial reasons but revealing history only fuels interest in it and one can not pay for something if it is not published right? Dan San Abbott and Greg Van Wyngarden are prolific posters here and their exposer here has steered me to products with their names on it, I have Dan's profiles on the wall and a stack of books with Greg's name on them, none I would have known about if they did not post here.

CW
Not a member of SSSoHH (special secret society of history hoarders)

van der Laan · 28 April 2009, 07:01 PM

Well, if enough people will express interest in a WW1 or WK1 WIKKI site, we'll start a thread about its design and feature set.

In the mean time, here is one of my all time favorite composite fakes, ?I believe done by someone on the AERODROME itself, but I cannot remember who. I just love this one: old JJ takes dead center.... no pun intended ..... ok it was a cheap shot.

By the way, it uses the same technique as that used by the one posted by Hal Oele , only using a much more sophisticated digital version of it.

van der Laan · 28 April 2009, 07:54 PM

Here is a super size of the photo first mentioned by Cigogne: The title says it all, propeller and shrapnel. JJ could have been hit by shrapnel or possibly this is of the plane he shot his propeller off of. That little pop, does not seem like much, but spinning at 1200 RPM I would bet it would have met his definition of “nearly tearing the plane apart in flight”

In a long burst from the Spandaus it’s not unimaginable that the last unspent round in the chamber would have COOKED OFF after a while from the heat: defeating the utility of the interrupter. He describes such an incident in his diary but I’m not sure if this was the result or not.

More importantly is the faint images laid out along the fuselage, revealing that this was 450/17. Just the barest of hint of the devil is visible, or maybe it was just the wings with no devil face at all.

Here is the result of several passes with high pass enhancement filter and a bit of hand tinting but it could be all conjecture because it’s just so faint.

If you have a set of digital tools at your disposal and would like a 20 meg high density drop me a line and you can do your own analysis, maybe something will come of it.

PS: you’ll need to know how to use FTP cause its too big to email.

Hal Oele · 29 April 2009, 02:49 AM

Hi Folks,
at this dead end point of discussion, MT likes to answer with some closing words...
yours
Hal

I could only wonder what the greatest American researcher, the late Alexander E. Ferko, would have answered those people here, who like to talk about faked photographs. Really funny, that they can't realise what important information this clipped photo is - and no, I don't mean the BOREAS.
This photo was never part of the Jacobs collection, and surprisingly the known pilot in the cockpit was NOT JJ.
Jacobs himself never privately owned a photo of BOREAS...

Manfred Thiemeyer"

van der Laan · 29 April 2009, 03:44 AM

To: Manfred Thiemeyer
From: Mikell F. van der Laan
A response to your message directly: There in lies the point exactly my good man: No one can ever realize what important information is contained with in the secret newspaper clipping you have posted because none of us have ever seen it and probably never will.

WW1 photographs are like cow manure, they don’t do anyone any good at all unless you spread them around.

Thanks for posting what you did though anyway.

PS: if that cross was there at that time.......yea I get it, but its a composited image, so I do not accept it as real.

CWatson · 29 April 2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal Oele

I could only wonder what the greatest American researcher, the late Alexander E. Ferko, would have answered those people here, who like to talk about faked photographs. Really funny, that they can't realise what important information this clipped photo is - and no, I don't mean the BOREAS.
This photo was never part of the Jacobs collection, and surprisingly the known pilot in the cockpit was NOT JJ.
Jacobs himself never privately owned a photo of BOREAS...

Manfred Thiemeyer"

We would love to learn the mysteries of this photo and many others. Unless you or others who hold these items publish articles or books that shows the complete picture the world will never know. I hope you decide to do so in your lifetime because it would appear collections disappear into the back storerooms of museums rarely to be seen again. History dieing one collector at a time.

CW

Hal Oele · 30 April 2009, 05:01 AM

Hello van der Laan junior,

talking for myself (Hal not proxy - you remember?),
i´m not sure if you´re postings are really serious about your problem with
"faked photographs". Probably it´s only a psychological provocation...

For example the photo with the PlM-holders:
What part of the photo is so abnormal, that you believe it´s faked?
Did you know when or where the photograph (btw: its one of a series of 17 press-agency photos) was taken?
Easy question, easy to answer...

Why do you believe that 19 PlM-Holders are standing there, with one exception - JJ?
Help me! I didn´t get it...

Yours Hal

van der Laan · 30 April 2009, 07:49 PM

"Why do you believe that 19 PlM-Holders are standing there, with one exception - JJ?
Help me! I didn´t get it..."

Now who is joking?
I did not say “there were 19 PLMs there for a photo except JJ“ and was not singling out JJ, I did insinuate however: where is waldo, or more important who is waldo?