Ltn Joeph Jacobs and the quest for the 2nd DEVIL image

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by Hans

Great pictures! "Kobes"....I have never heard of this name for an arrow or pumkin. According to the leading german dictionary, Kobes is a short form of "Jakobus" or "Jakob". H.

His wife Tatiana called him "pumpkin" but that was incidental to the term "Kobes." Short or nickname for Jacobs.

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by van der Laan

". . .Dear DSA
Both 450/17 and 470/17 had Clergets and Camel Props at the same time, the only way I have been able to tell the difference between the two in a some of my photos is that 470 always seems to have either a dent or a bullet hole in the cowling to the left and lower when looking at it head on facing the prop. . ."

Yes both 450/17 and 470/17 had Clergets at one point.

[van der Laan]

And maybe even a third or so he claimed to Sim's funny what Champagne will do for the troops

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by van der Laan

". . .On his death he apparently gave about a third of it to Parks in Denver, a third to Peter Grosz and still about a third again of which Bruno Schmaling and Neal O'Conner ended up with portions. On Ferko’s death the UTD folks had someone buy him out and sent it to the library. On Peter's death he donated his collection to the museum in Berlin and therein lies my problem. . ."

Nothing was given they were auctioned off in thirds. Dr. Parks, Neal O'Connor and the fellow's name was Mr. Grosse. A private collector and got his money from the oil industry. Schmäling was not given anything. He was not part of the auction. What he got was after the death of Jacobs and before Neal O' Connor was sent the remains of his purchase. On Neal's death Items were sent to the German museum, not Peter Grosz. Peter did not partake in the auction.

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by van der Laan

And maybe even a third or so he claimed to Sim's funny what Champagne will do for the troops

Never a third. 450/17 (repainted) & 470/17 (always with the open ended crosses.) Betcha don't know what was on the back of the barograph sections? Has it been that long? How did we ( I ) find the serial for his D.VII?

As to the cropped images, you will never change a leopard's spots and some people will do anything to throw in a question for arguement. You know at least two people like that and they both have been banned. But to see how deep this fatal flaw goes, you must recognize the lengths someone will go to to be recognized. Even using a third party with a different IP.

[van der Laan]

Lawson, thanks so much for the straight dope on the remains of Jacobs' and how they wound up where they did, facinating story just in that alone. Was this auction ever held by a known entiry? If so who did it and when was it held. Also I would love to know whats on the back of the back of the barograph sections I can only assume an aircraft ID? Thanks for the input, alwats welcomed.

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by van der Laan

". . .Was this auction ever held by a known entiry? If so who did it and when was it held. Also I would love to know whats on the back of the back of the barograph sections I can only assume an aircraft ID? Thanks for the input, always welcomed. . ."

These are the same questions I had when I talked to Dr. Parks about the auction. He referred me to Neal O' Connor, who gave me the information. But I was told on the account I would keep it to myself. So the actual mover and shaker can not be discussed. He or his relatives demanded their privacy.

As for the backs of the barograph snippets I discussed in the articles I wrote those many years ago. And yes - date, time and a/c serial were present in most of the loose items. These started being included in the diary we have when Jacobs began flying the Pfalz D.III in late 1917. I gave a listing of these to Alex Imrie when he asked for them.

[van der Laan]

Oh Well
Looks like Hal and MT have lost interest, hope they drop back by with the front half of that photo they teased all with ….


In the meantime feast your eyes on this one. It never seizes to amaze me how striking some of the photography is in these pictures from a time gone. If you’ve never held one in your hand, most of these photos are tiny little things by today’s standards but for all our auto-zoom, auto-focus and auto-f-stop setting features most of us cannot even come close.

Here is one from a cold day but not too cold to get out and get this image, everyone is dress in cold weather gear.

Looking a bit older than when we first started out, the wear and tear is starting to take its toll, but as the author Sims described him, he still looks cheerful and upbeat.

[Hal Oele]

Hello van der Laan,

would you agree to close this chapter of faked pictures in this thread? I will show you something...

I need some time before i understand your "whos Waldo" thing. Sorry in germany we don´t know this books...
But to your question "who´s joking now"... - ok lets forget it.

First: lets call "Waldo" Erni.
Second: have a look at Erni´s shoes.
Brings us to: Yes - Erni is real!

I would say the other 19 guys are ashamed, that the best of them didn´t want to wear a uniform...
Same place eight years later in 1933 (Bundesarchiv photo), Erni did it again.
In a tailcoat, with gaiters he stands between his friends Loerzer and "Laumännchen" at the grave of Richthofen.

Have a nice weekend...
Hal

[van der Laan]

very interesting, why does he want to stand out like that? Quite the 'Dapper Dan' but looks a bit more like he belongs in a Berlin Cabaret, shoes and all, than with his fellow soldatie.

Question for the Jasta Miesters: What was the date of Jacobs' PLM and when did he start wearing it?

When was the date of Oswald Boelcke's dealth?


You assume too much on the foto above, I am no expert, I've no idea what the subject of the last foto is about. I am sure its rare, but have not the education on the subject to appreciate its significance.

I assumed a Wk2 event (uniforms) in honour of some fallen hero at a tomb, the properties of the photo give away Udet's name?