Wwi aviation anecdote

AGV · 22 June 2009, 07:15 PM

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share a family story with you to see what you think about it and to contribute with an anecdote about WWI aviation.

Hermann Vallendor was my great grandfather and I’ve heard a lot of stories about the years he spent as a pilot during WWI. I’m sure that most of these stories are true but perhaps others could have been ‘romantically’ distorted.

One of these stories tells that one day, during a dog fight against an English aircraft, Hermann Vallendor’s guns jammed and that the English pilot noticed the problem he was having. Knowing that his opponent was in a disadvantageous position the English pilot waved at my great grandfather and said with his hands: “Next time”.

I’ve heard this story since I was a child and I love it!

What do you think about it? Could that have been true or is it too idealist?

Best regards,

AGV.

Gregvan · 22 June 2009, 10:08 PM

Hello AGV,

Thanks for sharing that wonderful family anecdote about your great grandfather!

Of course, we would all like to romantically believe that such things did happen. I think one or two times they actually did happen, and I cannot say if the one about

Hermann Vallendor is true or not. These tales became so well known they were exaggerated and 'adopted' by many other pilots.

In February 1918,

Lothar von Richthofen told a very similar story, in which he was dogfighting an Englishman. Suddenly Lothar's guns jammed; the Englishman looked 'wonderingly across' at Lothar, and when he realized Lothar's problem he waved his hand and flew away. This story was related in the diary of Count Czernin, who met the Richthofen brothers when they briefly were at Brest-Litovsk.

Then, the most famous example of such an incident is told by

Ernst Udet in his book Mein Fliegerleben. He was in the midst of a desperate fight against Guynemer when he was forced to resort to the crude solution of hammering on his guns with his fists to try to clear the jam. Guynemer flew close by, observed this, and chivalrously waved and took off.

The German ace

Josef Mai often told the story of a hard fight he had on 29 June 1918 with a Sopwith Dolphin. Mai claimed he had used up all his ammuniton and 'the empty machine gun belts were flapping around". (I've never heard of this happening in an Albatros D.Va). Anyway, the British pilot is supposed to have seen this and waved at Mai in a friendly manner. He was out of ammunition too (so the story goes) and held up three fingers, as if to say, "Let's resume this tomorrow at three". The next day they both showed up at three, and Mai saw his enemy's wings fold up under the stress of the dogfight - but there is no credited victory for Mai that day, and no loss of a Dolphin.

Such stories obviously became part of the lore and mythology surounding the "knights of the air" theme that was so popular - and still is today. The story of the pilot who mercifully spares his opponent with jammed guns has been retold in many versions, including comic strips, novels and movies (it turns up in the 1927 "Wings" , in "The Great Waldo Pepper" and was revived for the recent "Flyboys" movie).

However, such incidents were extremely rare (if they happened at all) and were the exception, not the norm. The brutal necessities of warfare ensured that such chivalry in the midst of a heated dogfight rarely happened.

So there you have it. I think you are welcome to believe the story about your great-grandfather if you want to!

Greg VanWyngarden

crankcase · 22 June 2009, 11:21 PM

If there had been an epidemic of chivalrous behavior, the big brass would have had to step in and start court martialling people. As Patton was reputed to have said, "...you win a war by making the other @#%& [guy] die for his country..." -- or at least you try to capture him by forcing him to land on your side!
marc

Willi Von Klugerman · 22 June 2009, 11:34 PM

AGV,Im not sure that you've seen this photo or not but the man in the middle is your g-grandfather in

Jasta Boelcke.Do you have photos or other info about him.If so we would love to hear more about him since he's one of the lesser known aces.

Ginger. · 23 June 2009, 12:35 AM

If I was in a gunfight I'd love it if the other fellow had a jammed gun!

alex_revell · 23 June 2009, 01:39 AM

A friend sent me this, but I don't have the knowledge to post it.
A very severely damaged B17 'Ye Old Pub' of the 379th Bomber Group based at Kimbolton in England was desperately trying to make it back to base. A German pilot Franz Steigler was ordered to take off and destroy it. When he saw the state of the B17, and the fact that it was flying deeper into Germany, Steigler admired the courage of the men, hadn't the heart to shot it down and indicated to the B17 pilot, Charles Brown, that he turn 180 degrees. He escorted the B17 over the North Sea, saw it on its way back to England, then flew back to his base. He, of course, never reported the incident, telling his CO that he had destroyed the B17, and the B17 crew were ordered never to tell of it. After a great deal of research, Steigler was traced and 40 years later the men met again at a reunion of the 379th group, along with 25 people who would not have been alive if Steiger had not taken the action he did. Both Steigler and Brown died in 2008.

bristol scout · 23 June 2009, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex_revell

A friend sent me this, but I don't have the knowledge to post it.
A very severely damaged B17 'Ye Old Pub' of the 379th Bomber Group based at Kimbolton in England was desperately trying to make it back to base. A German pilot Franz Steigler was ordered to take off and destroy it. When he saw the state of the B17, and the fact that it was flying deeper into Germany, Steigler admired the courage of the men, hadn't the heart to shot it down and indicated to the B17 pilot, Charles Brown, that he turn 180 degrees. He escorted the B17 over the North Sea, saw it on its way back to England, then flew back to his base. He, of course, never reported the incident, telling his CO that he had destroyed the B17, and the B17 crew were ordered never to tell of it. After a great deal of research, Steigler was traced and 40 years later the men met again at a reunion of the 379th group, along with 25 people who would not have been alive if Steiger had not taken the action he did. Both Steigler and Brown died in 2008.

But (i know this is not new) war is no place for altruism! The crew that he saved may well have returned next day and killed his family----or (as part of a raid of course) hundereds of families---as i say---this is not new thought, but the dilemma remains. Not to mention the obvious fact that allowing the enemy to live---to continue the fight---is not only treason but counter-productive.

War is all hell.

Dave.

bristol scout · 23 June 2009, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginger.

If I was in a gunfight I'd love it if the other fellow had a jammed gun!

Oooooh! I 'ang awake at night DREAMIN of 'flapping' empty gunbelts

Apologies to those poor benighted souls that have never seen 'The Life Of Brian'

dave.

alex_revell · 23 June 2009, 03:34 AM

Bristol,
Those were exactly my thoughts. Why didn't he just guide them to land at a German 'drome, but nevertheless that's what apparently happened. He would have been in real trouble if anyone had found out, probably have been shot. After all, the Americans and us were reagrded as terror flyers.

AGV · 23 June 2009, 05:38 AM

Thank you for all your replies!!
They are very interesting.

Willi: Thank you very much for the photo. I've seen it before and it's a very nice one. My g-grandfather is the one on the right. I've been told that the other pilots are Bassenge and Kempf (left to right).

I have some photos from WWI but I can't recognise him in any of them...
After WWI he came to Uruguay (South America) where he established with his family and lived until his death. He had 3 children and the only one still alive is my grandmother Agnes.

Best regards,

AGV