Aircraft Flown by MvR

[sixman]

After multiple searches of multiple locations, there seems to be alot of disagreement on the aircraft flown by MvR during his combat victories. One site lists he felw a Halberstadt for victories 26-31, another for victories 19-24 and 25-31, while a thirs (which claims to be from MvC combat reports he only flew a Halberstadt during one victoriy, #19. Is there a definitive list (or one the is most agreeded with)? Does Mr Miller's new book discuss this? I am contemplating build a set of aircraft that MvR flew during his combat victory missions and would like to be as accurate as far as colors and serial numbers are concerned.

[Laserlloyd]

Sixma,

Have you check with "Under The Guns Of The Red Baron"?

Here is what they have listed:
Victory 19: (MvR CR) "....With my Halberstadter machine..."
Victory 20: Norman says that MvR was flying his Halberstadter
Victory 25: Norman says that MvR was flying Lt. Lubbert's Albatros DIII
Victory 26: Norman says that MvR was flying his Halberstadter DII
Victory 27: Norman says that MvR was flying his Halberstadter DII
Victory 28: Norman says that MvR was flying his Halberstadter DII
Victory 29: Norman says that MvR was flying his Halberstadter Scout
Victory 30: Norman says that MvR was flying his Halberstadter DII
Victory 31: Norman says that MvR was flying his Halberstadter DII

Lloyd...

[Gregvan]

Hi All,

Lloyd, I'm not sure that "Under the Guns of the Red Baron" is correct about all those Halberstadt victories.

I would wait for Jim Miller's new book, before I made any hard decisions.

Greg

[Laserlloyd]

Hi Gregg:

I'm no expert here but I was just stating what was in the book as I couldn't tell you one way or the other what plane he flew with out looking it up myself.

I am looking forward in Jim's new book.

Lloyd...

[Gman]

Originally Posted by sixman

After multiple searches of multiple locations, there seems to be alot of disagreement on the aircraft flown by MvR during his combat victories. One site lists he felw a Halberstadt for victories 26-31, another for victories 19-24 and 25-31, while a thirs (which claims to be from MvC combat reports he only flew a Halberstadt during one victoriy, #19. Is there a definitive list (or one the is most agreeded with)? Does Mr Miller's new book discuss this? I am contemplating build a set of aircraft that MvR flew during his combat victory missions and would like to be as accurate as far as colors and serial numbers are concerned.

I am working on the same thing - all aircraft flown by MvR in 1/48 and maybe oneday all his 80 kills !!! Presently working on Kill # 55, Albatros DV versus DH-4.
The Andrea Press Modeling Book is a good starting point.
Still looking for a model of the Halberstadt in 1/48.
Good luck.

[sixman]

Is this the book you referenced; THE RED BARON: A Complete Review in History and Miniature

What aircraft do you have done now?

I found a BlueMax kit of a Halberstadt D.II at freightdogmodels in the UK.

Originally Posted by Gman

I am working on the same thing - all aircraft flown by MvR in 1/48 and maybe oneday all his 80 kills !!! Presently working on Kill # 55, Albatros DV versus DH-4.
The Andrea Press Modeling Book is a good starting point.
Still looking for a model of the Halberstadt in 1/48.
Good luck.

[Otis Glenn]

Hello Sixman:

I have been working on a similar project and actually posted a thread about the same topic.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/mo...g-project.html

This tread includes artworks that feature a lot of Richthofen's aircraft. I will be doing 11 to 12 aircraft, all in 1/48 except Fokker Dr.I 425/17 which will be the centerpeace in 1/32.

As far as which planes he flew for which kills, the only real concise numbers that I found were kept after the formation of Jagdgeschwader Nr.I. Before that I found it difficult to find exact matches. The Andrea press book isn't very accurate with the earlier aircraft. There are kills listed for one of his Albatros D.III's in April 1917 when the serial numbers of the aircraft weren't accepted until May. As far as the Halberstadt, he probably only scored one kill in that type of plane as "Le Petit Rouge" was quickly back in service after the wing failures that took place. Also, it is quite likely that the Halberstadt he flew was either a D.III or D.V with the evidence provided by the acceptance records of Jasta 11. There is a thread somewhere here on the Aerodrome about that very topic.

The Albatros D.III with the dark varnished fuselage and red band that was one of Richthofen's first D.IIIs (if not THE first) causes alot of confusion. According to Lothar, this particular aircraft was used by Manfred to shoot down ten aircraft and then passed on to Lothar where he shot down another ten at its controls. Twenty kills for a single Albatros! When you look at the dates of the kills and compare it to Lothar's claims the math simply doesn't add up. This is especially the case since some of Manfred's kills that were supposed to take palce with this plane (according to Lothar) we know took place while Manfred was flying "Le Petit Rouge".

Also, do you plan to do the aircraft that Richthofen used for kills that weren't officially credited to him in 1915 and 1916? The first of these palnes would be an Avitaik C.I when he shot dow a Farman F.11 while an observer. The other woud be the aircraft he flew that he attached a machine gun to the top wing and shot down a Nieuport 11. Most biographies say this plane is a Albatros C.III. A.E. Ferko and Jim Miller say this aircraft was actually a Roland C.II. The confusion of this stems from what aircraft Kasta 8 was flying at this time.

I have put together a graphic presentation of the aircraft that I am doing as a proposal to the Library manager where I work. The models I am doing will eventually be put on display in the library. I will send a copy, If you would like to see it, if you can send me your email address. I put alot of research into it and I received alot of help with it from members of the the forum.

As far as books you will want for this project, I reccomend A.E. Ferko's "Richthofen", both of Peter Kilduff's Richthofen biographies and his "Illustrated Red Baron", Greg Vanwyngarden's "Richthofen's Flying Circus", and Jim Miller's upcoming book on Richthofen. Jim Miller gave me alot of help with my project as did Laserlloyd, Tim West and others. I personally can't wait for Jim Miller's book. His will probably be the most comprehensive book as far as Richthofen's aircraft is concerned.

Hey Gman:

You can find Blue Max 1/48 Halberstadt D.IIs online from several hobby shops in Europe, that is where I got mine. Be prepared to pay though!

Hope all of this information helps!

Glenn

[sixman]

Glenn (or anyone else),

Is Norman Frank's book "Under the Gun of the Red Baron" any good as a reference? I will get Jim Miller's book when available. Anyone know where it will be available (and when)?

[Otis Glenn]

Hey Sixman:

I have to confess, I haven't actually read Norman Frank's "Under the Guns of the Red Baron" so I can't offer an opinion one way or another. My research is actually still continuing and that is a book I haven't gotten to yet.

The one thing to keep in mind about research and refrences... the more the better. I would say that Norman Frank's book is a good refrence. I have read other works by him and I know he puts alot of effort into his research. I may not agree with the lists of kills attributed to Richthofen in the Halberstadt, or some other bit of information, but I still believe Norman Frank's work is very good and valid.

The key to research on your part is to gather as many refrences as possible so you can come to your own conclusions. That is why the Aerodrome is so great. You get to hash out your ideas with others with the same interest and you can discover new refrences or bits of information that will answer a nagging question for you. Here's an example from my own research. I couldn't sleep at night because I couldn't answer for myself what Fokker Dr.I 477/17 actually looked like. The profile in the Andrea Press book disagrees with alot of other profiles avalible and I finally turned to the Aerodrome. After reading a looooooong thread about the ture color of 425/17, which had alot of info about 477/17 in it, I still couldn't make up my mind. I finally posted my own thread about it.

Need help on Dr.1 477/17 for MVR Aircraft Project

If you read through this, you will get an idea of the information I received and the thought processes behind my eventual decision. I honestly can't thank enough those who posted and sent me emails, photos and the like. I have become a big fan of their work. I also know from the information I received from Jim Miller that his book will probably be the best as far as information on the aircraft themselves.

Speaking of links here's some links that might also help you with your research.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/ca...-markings.html

Fokker axle wings.

Fokker Axle Wings - Part 2

Leading Edge Tape on Dr.I’s

FI 103/17: A Color Study
(This information applies to F.I 102/17 as well)

True color of MVR Fokker Dr1 425/17
(A very long thread that promped me to start the 477/17 thread)

Hope these threads help.

As far as Jim Miller's book, here is a link to a thread about it.

Has anyone seen this....

Also, I received your email and I'll send you the information shortly. When you get it I am open to comments and criticism. Let me know your take on it. I have been reluctant to post it because the artwork is not mine although I have given the artist credit. I have only used it for my own research and I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way.

Take care and happy modelling!
Glenn

[Gman]

Thanks for the Halberstadt link.
Yes, that is the book - a few errors but overall nicely done. (I took the book with me to Poland to show the present residents of Richthofen's house in Schweidnitz a photo of his trophy room).

Right now I am working on the Revell 1/28 Fokker FI, the Albatross DV is almost done too and the DH-4 next. Also have Roy Browns Camel, since he is part of the saga, I guess.

Gman

Originally Posted by sixman

Is this the book you referenced; THE RED BARON: A Complete Review in History and Miniature

What aircraft do you have done now?

I found a BlueMax kit of a Halberstadt D.II at freightdogmodels in the UK.