Rittmeister Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen

[Royalla]

Originally Posted by Biber

But is the photo original to the original German Edition? Still not settled on the photo, but I guess one shouldn't asrgue with mama R!

B

Yes, it is in the original German Edition! And since it is the same outfit (as FliegerJG1 stated: his hunting outfit) we have one more clue that it's really him. The picture I posted earlier is cropped, I removed the background. The whole pic shows MvR standing on a meadow with a moose he just shot and is covered in his handwriting. His handwriting - his outfit - same outfit in other photo - Mama says it's him - photo is authentic. That's my logic

[Royalla]

You can download Der Rote Kampfflieger for free here:

(in English)
The Red Fighter Pilot

(in German)
Der rote Kampfflieger by Freiherr von Manfred Richthofen - Project Gutenberg

[Manfred von Richthofen HU]

thanks thanks thanks

but in my opinion the english version is not the full book or i dont know!
in think the full version this book is 183 page but the english is 80-90 page! why?


thanks

MvR HU

[Laserlloyd]

Manfred von Richthofen HU:

Ebooks if they legit are another good way to read that book. Most of the books your asking for are not in Ebook form legally. All of Perter kilduff's, Greg v. and Norman Franks books are copyrighted and what your asking is illegal. There are all here on this forum and if they read this they would probably be really upset on what your asking for.

If some one here posted a link to what your asking for could get the post deleted and or banded fro the Aerodrome.

When if come to these these reference books you will have to go out and buy them like everyone else. If that not a option then some people have to special order it through their library.

I just thought I step in here and say thing thing before something hits the fan

Lloyd...

[Manfred von Richthofen HU]

sorry gentleman for my wrong attitude and in my country i cant buy these books!

[Laserlloyd]

I used Ebay to get a lot of these books for my own library.

Lloyd...

[tcrean7828]

Originally Posted by Manfred von Richthofen HU

sorry gentleman for my wrong attitude and in my country i cant buy these books!

Mate,
Can you get on e-bay: the URL is eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices. There is also a German, British, Japan, etc. to choose from.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

[GMU]

Originally Posted by Manfred von Richthofen HU

my old MvR video:

i read "The Illustrated Red Baron" book now and i find this:

When the Ehrenbecher (Cup of Honour) was
established to reward combat airmen for shooting
down enemy aeroplanes, the first two were presented
to Oswald Boelcl<e and Max Immelmann on
Christmas Eve 1915. Boelcke described the scene: 'In
the evening we officers exchanged Christmas
presents in the officers' mess, where at the same time
various awards were distributed. For me there was a
very beautiful silver goblet next to other small articles.
This goblet, bearing the inscription "Dem Sieger
im Luftkampf" [To the Victor in Aerial Combat], had
been presented to me by the Chief of Field Aviation
[Major Hermann von der
Lieth-Thomsen]. Immelmann
received the
same.'4 Boelcke had
scored six victories and
Immelmann seven at the
time they received their one-litre silver goblets, which were produced at the direction of kaiser
Wilhelm II by Godet, an exclusive goldsmith in Berlin.5 Later air unit leaders presented goblets to their men - officers and enlisted alike - on the occasion of their first combat success. Thus in
1916 Boelcke presented an Ehrenbecher to Manfred
von Richthofen, who, in turn, bestowed similar
goblets to men who served under him.

thats interesting very interesting!

It is important to add that the Ehrenbecher was an official award, and neither Manfred von Richthofen, nor Boelcke, could have awarded it. Like any other official award, it was santioned by the high authorities. At first, the award documents were signed by the Inspector der Flieger, and then by the Chief of the Air Service. Most documents (but not all) are seen signed by either Hoeppner or Thomsen

As commanding officer of Jasta 2, Boelcke presented the Ehrenbecher to MvR after his first confirmed victory on Sept 17, 1916. Also as commanding officer, MvR must have presented the Ehrenbecher to several of his pilots.

Regards,

[Manfred von Richthofen HU]

For almost a half-century, Gunner Robert Buie sought official recognition that it was he who shot down the World War I fighter ace Manfred von Richthofen, the Red Baron. Now, 43 years after his death, the Hawkesbury river fisherman has it.

Well, it is official recognition of sorts. While the military brass on three continents refuses to credit Buie with the kill, the Hornsby Shire Council in Sydney's northern suburbs has no such qualms. It has decreed that the local hero from the river town of Brooklyn was responsible for shooting down the Red Baron and has placed a plaque to commemorate the event in Buie's home town.
The plaque was an initiative of Hornsby Mayor Nick Berman, who says he learned of Buie's feat from "a coterie of locals who had a passionate belief in Bob's story".

"During his life Bob Buie never received credit for his actions and when he died in 1964 he received no recognition. That is why the Hornsby Council now believes it is appropriate to recognise his involvement," he says.

Rod White, president of the Hornsby RSL, is equally adamant. "There was no doubt among the Australians on the ground that Robert Buie shot down the Red Baron. It was Robert Buie who fired the decisive shot," he told a gathering at the plaque's unveiling.

Buie was born in 1894 and grew up on the banks of the Hawkesbury near its mouth in Broken Bay, north of Sydney. He was a dead-eye shot, according to his nephew, Morrie Buie, who lives in Landsborough, Queensland.

"Uncle Bob used to tend his fishing nets in the river," Morris Buie tells Inquirer. "He'd have problems with the hawks. They would see a mullet struggling in the nets, and swoop down and tear the hell out of the nets as they tried to fly off with the fish. So Uncle Bob used to shoot the hawks on the wing with his rifle. They were diving flat out and he'd pick them off. He was an expert shot, even as a boy. If he missed, he'd have to spend a couple of days repairing his nets."

Like so many men of his era, Bob Buie gave up his livelihood to enlist. He joined in 1916 and served as an anti-aircraft gunner in the 53rd Battery, 14th Brigade Field Artillery, in France and was in the trenches near the Somme river a few kilometres from the French village of Villers-Bretonneux on April21, 1918.

On that day von Richthofen, by then famous as the Red Baron, was leading his circus of multicoloured Fokker triplanes in action against a squadron of British planes and had just scored his 80th victim.

Von Richthofen was involved in a dogfight with two British Sopwith Camel biplanes when he flew low over Australian lines. He had been chasing Canadian pilot Wilfred May and was in turn being pursued by another Canadian airman, Captain Arthur Roy Brown, whose bullets struck von Richthofen's Fokker. In the 1930s, Brown was to give a flamboyant account of his action, perhaps embellished by years of controversy. He told how he had manoeuvred behind the Fokker. "I was in the perfect position, above and behind," he said. "It was just a matter of straight shooting. I dived until the red snout of my Camel pointed fair at his tail. My thumbs pressed the triggers. Bullets ripped into his elevator and tail planes.

"The flaming tracers showed me where they hit. A little short. The nose of the Camel rose ever so slightly: easy now, easy! Its occupant turned and looked back. I had a flash of his eyes behind the goggles. Then he crumpled, sagged in the cockpit. My bullets poured out beyond him; my thumbs eased on the triggers; the triplane staggered, wobbled, stalled, flung on its nose, and then went down. Von Richthofen was dead."

The problem with this account is that it does not accord with the reports of other witnesses who claimed von Richthofen flew on for more than 1.6km after Brown's firing, before turning sharply and crashing. As his aircraft passed over the Australians, von Richthofen's Fokker took fire from a Vickers machinegun operated by Australian sergeant Cedric Popkin and from Lewis anti-aircraft gunners Buie and Snowy Evans.

Buie told his story in a letter to the editor of the Central Coast Express in 1957. Annoyed by controversy over who should be credited with the kill, he was typically straight to the point: "I am herewith enclosing the facts and truth of the shooting down of the Red Baron. I, myself, am the man responsible for his destruction." Buie told how he had to hold his fire as the Fokker approached because May's aircraft was in the line of fire.

"I was manning one gun and 'Digger' Evans the other," he wrote.

"As the planes neared us, Evans opened fire, but the plane came on. I could not fire at the same time as I did not have clearance, but as soon as our plane was out of the line of fire, I started firing directly at the German pilot. Fragments came off the plane and it lessened speed. It came down a few hundred yards metres away. When the place was reached, Richthofen was dead."

The Red Baron had died from a single bullet that passed through his body and was found in the folds of his uniform. If the bullet had been matched with the gun that fired it, all controversy would have ended, but according to contemporary accounts the vital evidence was souvenired and never seen again. According to the trajectory as evidenced by the pilot's wounds, the bullet had been fired from below, yet Brown was officially awarded the kill.

In his 1957 letter Buie said: "There were quite a few who tried to claim von Richthofen's downing. All the evidence was sent to British Army headquarters in France and a month later, while I was still in the line, a dispatch came from General Rawlinson to the 53rd Battery and to me, giving me the credit for shooting down the German ace. I have the proof in my possession and I cannot see why the controversy goes on."

Buie's account was supported by fellow gunner Frank Wormald. "I had a clear view of the chase," Wormald told the Sunshine Coast Daily in 1988. "All at once May the pursued pilot is over our heads. The breeze of him almost knocked my tin hat off. The baron is perhaps 70m behind him and, say, 15m higher. Then the baron dives; he's in the perfect position to get May.

"When he dives he exposes his body from the waist up and that's the moment both Buie and Evans went fired. Bob Buie is on my right, perhaps 4m away, and I see bullets leave his machinegun and fly up and hit the baron right in the chest. It's just a red streak from Buie's gun to the Baron's chest. I saw the Baron sort of shrug and sit up. I could see him plain as daylight."

Buie said an inquiry into the shooting at British Army headquarters clearly stated that "after very careful consideration and the weighing up of all the evidence, it was proved beyond doubt that No.3801, Gunner Robert Buie, 53rd Battery, was responsible for the destruction of the Red Baron".

But official World War I historian C.E.W. Bean concluded differently. While noting the official kill was awarded to Brown, the pilot, Bean proposed that the shot had most likely come from Popkin's gun on the ground. Popkin's position was about 500m from Buie and Evans.

But Popkin was not sure. He said: "I am fairly certain it was my fire which caused the baron to crash, but it would be impossible to say definitely that I was responsible."

Buie was recommended for a Meritorious Service Medal but it was never awarded. He was invalided out of the front line after suffering a heart attack, and returned to Australia in 1919. He applied for a war pension, but the government refused to accept that his heart condition was war-related and denied his application.

He returned to fishing and oyster farming in the Hawkesbury river, north of Sydney. He lost his medals and other wartime memorabilia in a fire in the '50s and could not afford to pay for replacements. Buie died on Anzac Day 1964. His body was found in his boat, drifting on the Hawkesbury. He is buried in the Brooklyn cemetery. His headstone reads: "He shot down the Red Baron."

[Laserlloyd]

Originally Posted by Manfred von Richthofen HU

For almost a half-century, Gunner Robert Buie sought official recognition that it was he who shot down the World War I fighter ace Manfred von Richthofen, the Red Baron. Now, 43 years after his death, the Hawkesbury river fisherman has it.

Robert Buie will never have "official recognition", the history books are not going to be rewritten. The fact stands that Roy Brown will retain the "official recognition" with the credit of shooting down MvR and will always have this. There still is no concrete evidence that the magic bullet came from Buie. Was the bullet fired from the ground, in most likelihood it was as seen in the Discovery Channel's show "The Death of the red Baron" but who fired it we will never know.

Since we don't have the bullet and the gun to do forensics ballistic testing on we will never know. Roy Brown's Camel was using the .303 caliber ammunition that day along with all the machine gun units that day and let not forget all of the ground ponders with their .303 Enfield rifles.

Lloyd...