Werner Voss

tcrean7828 · 16 September 2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Von Quinnthar

ok we all know Voss got into a turning fight with at least 7-9 SE.5's or as some sources quote 9 spads. What I would like more info onor theorizing on is if Voss's F.1 had sustained damage during the fight turning from each head on pass to the next imagine if he was'nt wounded he may sustained some serious damage to the aircraft. I think He flew into the battle not fully understanding the odds, it quickly got out of hand and He flew by the seat of his pants for as long as he could.e maybe got wounded or had serious damage done to some of the flight controls of his aircraft. He then chose to try and get away , which was then majorly hampered by the damage plus also the inferior dive speed potential or the F.1 compared to the SE.5's or maybe Spads. I would like to know if he got shot down fleeing or in a head on pass or had been stuck on the tail of a allied plane trying to get a kill?does anyone know this major part of this grave encounter.His pane was described as hitting the ground and turning into powder. This suggest he was shot from behind eithe fleeing or turning whilst still engaged.

Mate,
What source for the 7 to 9 Spads?

As McCudden and the rest of 56 have said in the past, just as they were about to fire, Voss would skirt out of the way and where there bullets landed, was not where he was moments ago.

You have to realize, that

Werner Voss was a seasoned combat veteran, with extra ordinary situation awareness skills. He was noted by the men he fought with in the past that he seemed to know exactly what his opponent was thinking, moments before they themselves thought of it, and avoided their conclusion.

He was most probably wounded, when Rhys Davids fired his stern to stem stream of bullets at Voss' Triplane, or he was wounded a tad bit before this. In either case, he stopped his gyrations and flew straight and level. When Voss turned to the right, Rhys Davids gave him another volley and as he said he missed Voss triplane wing tip by inches as he zoomed past.

I do not believe he was fleeing as he was heading west into Allied territory instead of in the oposite direction where his own lines were. I contend that he was wounded and just trying to maintain the aircraft.

Rotory engines in the Tripe had a tendency to pull right, if you did not maintain absolute control, as happened to quite a few newbe pilots that were unfamiliar with how the Trips engine effected the dynamac of the aircraft and would corkscrew themselves into the ground. (I.e. notice the wing skidds on the Dr.I's, I think they were there to assist the pilot that he was about to tip, if he didn't get his butt in gear)

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

Baron Von Quinnthar · 16 September 2009, 04:26 PM

Look i didn't say that there were 7-9 spads but I've heard there is even conjecture there all I'm saying is that he was wounded or the plane suffered damage. I agree 56 squadron where flying SE.5a's I know. OK but I was making a point that there has been so much conjecture and misinformation over the years.

tcrean7828 · 16 September 2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Von Quinnthar

Look i didn't say that there were 7-9 spads but I've heard there is even conjecture there all I'm saying is that he was wounded or the plane suffered damage. I agree 56 squadron where flying SE.5a's I know. OK but I was making a point that there has been so much conjecture and misinformation over the years.

Mate,
your note that "there has been so much conjecture and misinformation over the years" is absolutely correct.

In my book, I have sourced approx 545 reference pieces in the bib, and that is excluding the many e-mails, letters, telephone calls, etc., from people that I have contacted or whom have contacted me with information to somehow set the record straight.

The book is not a one glove fits all concerning

Werner Voss - it will not answer all of one's questions - it is merely a starting point for someone who wants to investigate this information a little further and a little deeper. I might even come out with an amendment edition to include, recent info that has cropped up since the book came out.

I believe that the entire story of Werner Voss will most probably never be told, because every day new information crops up to cause a slight revision to what has been previously written.

As I, Alex Revell, Greg Van, Dan-San and a host of other people have said in the past - there is a lot of fodder written with little to no knowledge of relative truth and no references to back up their statements - so the reader is left with, " well! where did this come from"

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

Baron Von Quinnthar · 18 September 2009, 12:55 AM

Hi Tcrean7828,

Thanks for the info as it really is a natural conclusion that he would have been wounded. And the info on the F.1 is interesting, they sound difficult to fly. Also are there stories where Voss lets Damaged enemy craft go when he could have delivered the killing shots. I only asked this because i feel as if this has been suggested of Voss and they say He had many more kills then where officially acredited to him? If this is true? If it is He sounds like a real dude and very fine gentleman.

Cheers and Tally Ho.

*Some stories by allied pilots would be excellent.

Baron Von Quinnthar · 18 September 2009, 01:15 AM

Hi Tcrean,

Sorry i didn't answer your question. The Spad reference comes from an aircraft magazine article here in Australia, but also i thought i read it on the instrutions in a model kit I did recently which i think was hobbycraft but I'm not sure, I've thrown the box out. So not very good references but i thought hang on thats not right they where SE.5a's. Have you found any other misrepresentations of history in this area regarding Voss?

Cheers

dglewwe · 18 September 2009, 04:57 AM

re: "...The Spad reference..."

Dunno with any degree of confidence, but the idea of SPADs involved in the fight may have come from McC's account which refers to some SPADs keeping the flight of Albatros (that 56 was going after when it spotted/diverted to Voss) at bay? They (and the 6 Albatros as well as Voss's 2 mates in Pfalz) will be in the game I will run next weekend --not trying to recreate history, but using the framework of the situation to see which way the butterfly goes if given another chance to roll the dice...

tcrean7828 · 18 September 2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Von Quinnthar

Hi Tcrean,

Sorry i didn't answer your question. The Spad reference comes from an aircraft magazine article here in Australia, but also i thought i read it on the instrutions in a model kit I did recently which i think was hobbycraft but I'm not sure, I've thrown the box out. So not very good references but i thought hang on thats not right they where SE.5a's. Have you found any other misrepresentations of history in this area regarding Voss?

Cheers

Mate,
In the book there are quite a few - and if I give all the goods away -why then would I want to publish. 'Nuff said

I enjoy that questions are being raised and will continue to answer them when I can.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

Baron Von Quinnthar · 21 September 2009, 12:26 AM

Hi Tom,

Do you think that dogfight would have seen him endure an endless run of head on's with opponents, as when out numbered like that it wasn't a very good idea to stay fixed on one target for to long. By the sound of things that he put holes in all the enemy planes this sounds like what happened. Do you think that is right? was thinking probably the initial passthen probably 5-10 more with in some cases 2-3 planes at once.

tcrean7828 · 21 September 2009, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Von Quinnthar

Hi Tom,

Do you think that dogfight would have seen him endure an endless run of head on's with opponents, as when out numbered like that it wasn't a very good idea to stay fixed on one target for to long. By the sound of things that he put holes in all the enemy planes this sounds like what happened. Do you think that is right? was thinking probably the initial passthen probably 5-10 more with in some cases 2-3 planes at once.

Mate,
I don't think that he stayed fixed on any one aircraft anymore than his opponents tried to stay fixed on him. He and his nimble triplane, performing seemingly impossible flicks, turns, dives and zooms most probably kept his enemy wondering what was he going to do next.

I read somewhere, cant think where, that when Rhys-Davids landed he was so excited as to what he had just survived, that when they asked him what went on, he studdered until his CO gave him a couple of sips of brandy to calm him down.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

Lyle · 23 September 2009, 06:40 AM

Let's be sure to raise a glass to all the participants of that fight, which happened today, but 92 years removed. They were all incredibly brave men, and no one then really knew what the outcome would be until it was over. Voss fought for his life but the odds were too great, but everyone in B Flight was also in extreme danger with a real wildcat flying the F.I Triplane against them.

Hoch! Hoch! Hoch!