Lt. Barlow's 25 Sept 1917 shootdown #3 for the day

[tcrean7828]

Originally Posted by JoaoMVM

Russ

Concerning Richtofens last flight i read Joachim Wolffs notes about that fight and it seems that, as he was watching Richtofen drift into allied lines in pursuit of Wilfrid May, he was attacked by a Camel and was forced to evade this attack wich promptly put 20 bullets into his Tripe. Maybe the pilot of the Camel(Francis Mellersh?) claimed Wolffs Triplane has he did hit him and he probably dived away in escape.

Regards Joao

Mate,
Thanks for the info.

Concerning Lt. Barlow's shootdown on 25 Sept 1917, just haven't seen where Rüdenberg was one of the pilots shot down that day or the story behind it?

Where did you find your info, as I have looked at my notes from ‘Over the Front Vol.16-2001-Summer Issue No.2’ by Dov Gavish, PhD and Dieter H.M. Groschel, M.D – pg 120;‘juedische-geschichte.de’- Jüdische Geschich_Friedrich Rüdenberg; correspondence with Mrs. Elisheva Litan nee Rudenberg sister from Israel; ' The Jasta War Chronology' by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey and Rick Duiven - pg 102; 'The Jasta Pilots' by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey and Rick Duiven - pg 246 .

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

[RussGannon]

Tom

The 25 Sep 17 fight looks to be noted in Natrichtemblatt - but my German is too poor to work out what is actually reported. I know OTF has been slowly translating the above, but I'm not sure where they are up to as I no longer subscibe.

In the OTF article, Rudenberg notes the fight but does not infer he he was shot down.

Cheers Russ.

[steven brown]

Russ,
Thanks for all that detail on the engagment that saw the demise of MvR. All I had seen up to now only addressed the death of MvR. I had no idea that two other Germans may have gone down or been shot up.

[tcrean7828]

Originally Posted by steven brown

Russ,
Thanks for all that detail on the engagment that saw the demise of MvR. All I had seen up to now only addressed the death of MvR. I had no idea that two other Germans may have gone down or been shot up.

Mate,
do you mean Voss instead of MvR or do I need bigger coke bottle glasses?

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

[RussGannon]

Tom

The Barlow 25 Sep 17 fight is recorded in Natrichtemblatt Nr 10 dated 2 Mai 18. It also notes both Lt Maybery and von der Osten in text but my German is far too limited to know what is being said. The article then goes on to tell of JTB McCudden's four in one day on 16 Feb 18.

Tom are you still working up a Js 10 history? You know I could expand a Js 10 claim loss listing I ran up in 90's - which could fill in detail on a lot of Js 10's combats. Take a couple of Sunday afternoon's.

Stephen

I'm fearful of re-ignighting 21 Apr 18 - but at the same time I feel too much myth has got into its telling and felt it was time to state the basics based on contemporary accounts and not modern day musing & milking. Of course German accounts don't admit to any loss beyond MvR but I think the hard evidence says a second Tripe was downed - but as always, as the pilot clearly was unscathed it never makes it into official lists.

Tell you what I'll do I'll post you a copy of Bean's excellent Appendix - everything since has been based on it; though it appears that that some redactors have chosen to ignor seminal truths like 'engine full on' leading to rediculous claims of a mortaly wounde MvR switching off engine and attempting to land. A notion which has its roots in the wishful thinking of Js 11 participants in the wash up of MvR's failure to return.

Cheers Russ.

[steven brown]

tcrean7828,
I was refering to Russ' post #10 in this thread where he discusses the fight where MvR lost his life. Every narrative of the fight that I had seen only followed the movements of MvR, May and Brown. I'm always interested in more detail of any engagement.
To get back to the subject of this thread, did Barlow down these three aircraft from one formation of Jasta 10 in a single engagement?

[steven brown]

Russ,
Excellent, and thanks ahead of time. You know I can't get enough numbers and details.

[RussGannon]

Steven

Deffinately tow Weigand & Werkmeister both kia - and possibly a third - again one has to suspect a pilot who walked away unscathed. Js 10's Rudenberg gives nice account of this fight in a OTF journal, but he only notes the above two losses. It might be that a third pilot only spun away and that Bowman's confirmation was a fog of war duplication of seeing one of first two hit the deck.

Cheers Russ

[tcrean7828]

Originally Posted by RussGannon

Steven

Deffinately tow Weigand & Werkmeister both kia - and possibly a third - again one has to suspect a pilot who walked away unscathed. Js 10's Rudenberg gives nice account of this fight in a OTF journal, but he only notes the above two losses. It might be that a third pilot only spun away and that Bowman's confirmation was a fog of war duplication of seeing one of first two hit the deck.

Cheers Russ

Mate,
Russ, thanks for the info.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom