last connection - alex , dan-san , norman et al

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hi Fill:
A few names I can remember are, of cousre Paul Winslow, 56 Sqdn, RAF,USAS; Baron Willy Coppens, Bernard "Mike" Doolin, 22cd Pursuit Sqdn.USAS: Muir Fairchild, LFC, Duerson Knight, 1 Sqdn, RAF, USAS, Andre Hug BAO;
Mike Doolin, was special to me, I had not seen him since the late 1920s. He was a friend my Father. It was the tales that he told in the greasy spoon at Mills Field that excited my interest in WW1 Aviation. He was an official of some kind at Mills Field around 1928. When I heard his tales of fighting Hun. He sure had my attention then. The greasy spoon was small, maybe 8 stools at the counter and one table by the window. So if someone was talking it was heard by all all. One of my problems with Mike"Irish"Doolin, was, he wanted to talk about my Father and Mother and Mills Field. Another who was the Superintendant at Mills Field, and I can't remember his name, but he was a Gun Layer, (front Gunner) on F2A Flying Boats in the RAF. Another RAF pilot, flew R.E.8s He lived in San Francisco.
What I tried to do was to control the conversation so the Speaker did not go off on a tangent. I had a series of questions that led them through their ground training, and flight training and assignment to the front. Most of the Americans were assigned to their Squadron here in the USA and went overseas with the Squadron. Their arrival in France was without aircraft and they wound up digging ditches and other menial details. Then when the made their first flight over the lines. And he rest of their story. Let them talk, but control the conversation.
The method I used in the interview, jogged their memory and they had almost total recall.
Charles Kinsolving, was another interesting speaker. Charles came from LFC, was posted to Esc.Br.116, he flew the Breguet 14b2. I asked him, "Did you want to get into fighters?" Charles replied, "Heck no!, I wanted bombers, I wanted to bomb the Germans." He was the single exception all the others wanted to fly fighters. When he transferred to the USAS, he became the C.O of 163rd Bomb Squadron, USAS. on D.H.4 aircraft.
It was a very rewarding experience, to meet some real heros of the Great War, and become their friend.
I wish to correct something I said in my previous posting, The Winslows did not have childern, they did not legally adopt Patti and I, they took us under thheir wings and we became close friends. Paul had two loves aside from Ruth, orchids and his wood shop in the lower floor of the home. He liked working with wood. They had a very beautiful home on the Seventeen Mile Drive in The Carmel Highlands that overlooked Montertey Bay.
All my interviews were recorded, I think Noel Shirley will no who has the recordings. some were published in Cross & Cockade USA.
One American pilot I interviewed in response to my question "how many confirmed victories do you have?" he replied, "Three confirmed, and two unconfirmed, I know the were destroyed, and in my heart I know I am an Ace! However, I have three confirmed victories, and I am not an Ace!
I think his name was Mackin, not sure. I must find my File of WW1 Vets., it has all the people I interviewed.
This really jogged my memory.
Blue skies Fill,
Dan-San

[Fill]

Blue skies Mr Abbott.... brilliant and fascinating . Hope you feel like adding more sometime . Thank you very much !.

[FOKKERJ]

A very special Thank You to Dan-San for sharing.... That's what this is all about.

Best Wishes, Jay

P.S. I like your style.... As an interviewer, you have a good formula for keeping it on track and progressively working on the memories. I believe that is the way to obtaining the best information.

[Sreiko]

I am back here just to salute to Dan San

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Fill;
Around 1960-61, Patti and I, went on vacation, no plans, the XK140 Jag was all packed, the house all locked up, and we were standing in front of the house, I took my lucky silver dollar out of my pocket, I asked Patti, "Heads North, Tails South, I filed the dollar, it came up North. 5 heads, 99, tails. It came up tails so it was 99. Away up 99 I cut over to 101, and we drove up the coast. Any how we stayed several great places one was in Depot Bay, Oregon, in the morning we got up for breakfast, the restaurant was built out over the rocks on the shore, and we watched the whales heading south to the Gulf Mexico. Eventually we got the Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
and took the ferry to Victoria Island. Looking at the map, I noticed Nanimo. I remembered Mr. Ray Collishaw lived. I took a shoot in the dark and gave him a call, He answered the phone and after introductions, I asked if we could come by for a short visit. He said "Certainly!" And he gave me directions.
A short drive and we were there. I thought this was a great opportunity to talk about the Sopwith Triplanes and Camels he flew with Naval 10 and Naval 3. We were served tea and Mr. Collishaw and I chatted, during the discussion, I made a mistake unknowingly, I asked if he had ever met Edward Mannock? That set him off, and the conversation was about, everybody knew what everybody was doing, and he firmly informed me that Mannock did not have 73 victories, he had around 50 some! And his friend Taffy Jones made it all up. We never talked about Sopwith Tripes or Camels or Naval 10 and Naval 3. He made a remark that the RFC boys got better treatment than the Naval pilots. I did not pursue it, I was very subdued. He was quite put off. It was an interesting hour to say the least.
We left, and Patti and I visited Burchard Gardens, very beautiful gardens.
Blue Skies Fill,
Dan-San

[backusstudio]

Great story Dan-San! A perfect fantasy trip down to the Jag XK-140. My problem in life is that my interests lie not so much in WHERE I'd like to go as WHEN I'd like to go. Victoria B.C. is just a day's drive from my home in Eugene. Sadly, no Ray Collishaw to visit with today.

[Sreiko]

That set him off, and the conversation was about, everybody knew what everybody was doing, and he firmly informed me that Mannock did not have 73 victories, he had around 50 some!

Things like that could be found only in personal conversations, documents... in many cases could be intentionally made false- officially!

Cheers

[Fill]

Blue Skies Mr Abbott ...how about that for an amazing ....and nice , story . More more !!!. You have perfected what I was hoping for ...not only stories about aces ... but stories about our hero's ... men like Dan-San , Norman , Alex , Greg , and many more .
And guy's ..14-18....Greg ...Stephen ...you said you will be back with more stories ...come on guy's !!.
Alex..still hoping you will weigh in ...In my mind I can see those pic's of the 56 crowd at reunion in HITEB ,,,it has always made me wonder .
Please...let this be one thread where we are united ?

[stephen]

Well, since Dan-San started us on Triplanes and Black Flight...

I started corresponding with W. Melville Alexander of RNAS 10's Black Flight in 1988. Mel was super nice every time we wrote. He talked about his love of the Sopwith Triplane and how it staggered about under the weight of an extra machine gun when they added a second Vickers.

But things got really interesting when I asked him about a print that I'd just purchased through a Canadian firm depicting him in combat with a tan Albatros in June, 1917. The print was done by Canadian artist R W Bradford, and was quite popular in the late 80's and early 90's. Mel had met Bradford and some sort of event, and the two men had begun a conversation about WWI combat. This particular fight had really stuck in Mel's mind and he spoke about it in great detail with Bradford (and later with me, saying that the sky was "lousy with Huns" that day). Bradford took the clarity of Mel's memories and began to envision a painting of the incident, asking all the details he could. The men spoke for some time about the events as they occurred in June 1917.



Not knowing story behind the creation of the picture, I later asked Mel if the painting represented an actual event and he said "yes," it did. I then asked him if the painting was accurate according to his memories, and he said that it was, with one critical exception.

The colors and markings of both planes were correct, Mel said. The pilot slumped over the cockpit was just as he remembered. The plane nosed over in the picture exactly as depicted, level and into a straight, engine-on dive.

However, Bradford was forced to compress time in the picture in order to get both planes into a vertical format for his painting. Mel said that both planes were in the correct positions, but at the wrong "time." He said that by the time his plane had reached the position shown in the painting (a bit to the right and directly overhead of the Albatros) that the Alb was diving straight down over a thousand feet below him. Since he was in a vertical engine-on death dive, the Albatros was nearly indistinguishable from the terrain below and Mel could barely see him at all.

The Albatros WAS in the position shown, exactly as depicted, but it was some ten seconds before when Mel was still fifty yards behind him, having just let off the triggers after firing the fatal machine gun burst. By the time Mel got to the position shown in the picture, the Albatros was diving straight down well below him.

I sent the print to him in a mailing tube and he took great care in signing it clearly with all the details of the incident. Now professionally framed the print hangs on the wall of my library and is among my most prized art works.

Interestingly, Mel showed no remorse whatsoever about killing the German man, nor did he seem bloodthirsty or callous. And he had no doubt whatsoever that the German was dead. He could see the bullet holes behind the cockpit and the pilot was clearly slumped over the controls. Mel looked on it in a very neutral way, explaining it as "just war." He showed no interest in the man's identity or unit, and said that his job was simply to shoot at "anything with black crosses on it."

That was in stark contrast to the remorse shown by US SPAD pilot Roland Richardson when I met him in Cincinnati in the fall of the same year, but that's another story.

[backusstudio]

One of the frustrating aspects of trying to tell these stories in paintings is that absolute accuracy often does not tell the story. This was a good instance of that problem. It was better that the artist compressed the timeline rather than have the Albatros so small and far away that it could hardly be seen.

Artists who were trained in illustration, like myself, were taught that the essential thing is to draw readers into the story. The assumption was that the absolute details would be covered by the author.

That's quite a treasure you have there, Stephen.