MvR Uniform

[Epee]

In the iconic portrait photo of Richthofen with the upturned collar; does anyone have any idea what color that collar might be?

He's actually posed with a cape rather than a greatcoat and the overall color is light grey but the collar might be either bluish-green or greyish-blue perhaps something else.

[FliegerJG1]

Hmmm...I was just browsing through a Schiffer books catalog and there are some books of color drawings of the Kaiser's army. Perhaps your answer might be found in such a reference.

FliegerJG1

[Epee]

Yeah, I've seen books for sale on the subject but was hoping someone could save me a dime.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hello Epee:
MvR belonged to Ulanen Regiment Kaiser Alexander III von Russland, His collar and piping on the Ulanka was ponceaurot (red).
Blue skies Epee,
Dan-San

[GMU]

I agree with Dan-San. The piping of the Ulanka was ponceaurot (poppy red).

However, the cuffs and the collar were red only for the so called “Friedensuniform” or peace time uniform of 1915. There is a photo of MvR wearing this type of Ulanka.

The most common Ulanka seen on MvR was the field uniform, which only had the red piping. The cuffs and collar were of the same color of the uniform which was “feldgrau” or fieldgray (see my avatar).

The question, however, was not about MvR’s Ulanka, but about his coat. The one with upturned collar.

In the photo in question, MvR wears not a coat but a cape (Umhang) which had no sleeves, and in this particular case, it looks like an early cape that was light gray, and the collar was in two colors. In MvR’s case, the underneath color was red (poppy red), and the upper color was probably dark blue. After 1915 regulations, the capes were feldgrau color with green collar.

George

[Epee]

Thanks guys that what I was looking for. I know the Ulanka piping was poppy red (orange-ish scarlet) it was the cape collar that was stumping me.

George,
When you discribe the cape's collar, "...and the collar was in two colors. In MvR’s case, the underneath color was red (poppy red), and the upper color was probably dark blue." I'm reading you as saying that the portion of the collar framing MvR's face is dark blue and that the underside of the collar, the portion facing his back, is ponceaurot. Correct?


BTW, a while ago someone noticed that a film of MvR shows his ribbon bar on the right side of his chest while everyone else's is on the left and we speculated as to why this was so. In researching the proper uniform colors I discovered that wearing the ribbon bar on the right was particular to the Ulans.

Here are a few good links:
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/
http://www.derrittmeister.com/uniforms.htm
http://www.saxoniamilitaria.com/

Don't you just love Imperial Uniform non-systems?

[GMU]

Originally Posted by Epee

Thanks guys that what I was looking for. I know the Ulanka piping was poppy red (orange-ish scarlet) it was the cape collar that was stumping me.

George,
When you discribe the cape's collar, "...and the collar was in two colors. In MvR’s case, the underneath color was red (poppy red), and the upper color was probably dark blue." I'm reading you as saying that the portion of the collar framing MvR's face is dark blue and that the underside of the collar, the portion facing his back, is ponceaurot. Correct?


BTW, a while ago someone noticed that a film of MvR shows his ribbon bar on the right side of his chest while everyone else's is on the left and we speculated as to why this was so. In researching the proper uniform colors I discovered that wearing the ribbon bar on the right was particular to the Ulans.

Here are a few good links:
Kaiser's Bunker
Der Rittmeister Militaria, Imperial German Merchandise Page 15: Uniforms & Related Accessories: Tunics, Belts and Buckles, Badges, Shooting Prizes, etc.
Saxonia Militaria - Imperial German Militaria 1816 - 1918

Don't you just love Imperial Uniform non-systems?

This photo was taken soon after receiving his PLM. I believe he is wearing the formal dress Ulanka; the same uniform as in Sankes # 450 and #503. The photo was probably taken at the same time too.

The cape seems to be an early type, being light grey with a two colored collar. In its normal position (folded down) the obverse side of the collar was probably blue (for infantry) all around. The reverse side was red all around.




Regarding the ribbon bar on the Ulanka:

Yes, on the right side.

[Epee]

Looking over the two photos again I believe you are right about them being taken at the same time. I had always assumed #450 was late in MvR's career do to the huge rack of awards being displayed. However, his face looks much more like that of the confident young PLM winner than that of the wounded, war-weary commander.

Even if this isn't the case I'm sure you are right about his wearing the dress blues in both pictures because the tunic is a much darker material than the cap which is darker than the cape and the tunic botton that peeks out from underneight the right side of the cape is very shiny.

I suppose this means that the tunic is Prussian Blue with a Poppy Red collar and guilt buttons? Seems odd that he's wearing a feldgrau peak cap...

Another good link:
http://www.sanke-cards.com/index.htm

[Manfred von Richthofen HU]

look at sanke card 532-533! is that same uniform? or sanke 534?

[GMU]

Originally Posted by Manfred von Richthofen HU

look at sanke card 532-533! is that same uniform? or sanke 534?

No.

That was the field uniform Ulanka

Collar and Cuffs = feldgrau
Piping = Ponceaurot
Buttons = Tomback