John Inglis Gilmour 65 Squadron

Simon Birch · 6 November 2009, 04:08 AM

Many of you will have heard of John (DSO, MC and 2 bars) He served mostly with 65 Squadron flying camels and was credited with 39 victories.

What has been unknown is what happened to him after the war.

While researching 65 Squadron it is with regret that I found out that he committed suicide by cyanide poison on 24th Feb 1928 at 26 St James Street London. He was listed as having independant means but having an unsound mind.

Terribly sad end to a brave man.

Simon

Gregvan · 7 November 2009, 03:30 PM

Thanks for that saddening information, Simon.

As you said, a tragic end to a great career.

Greg

RussGannon · 8 November 2009, 03:43 PM

Simon

Yes sad indeed. Will pencil that sad note in Gilmore biog of my copy of 'Over the Lines.' Do I take it that a 65 Sqn book or article is in the works?

Cheers Russ

Simon Birch · 8 November 2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussGannon

Simon

Yes sad indeed. Will pencil that sad note in Gilmore biog of my copy of 'Over the Lines.' Do I take it that a 65 Sqn book or article is in the works?

Cheers Russ

Hello Russ.

I am aiming at a book. I have just got to the end of the collecting papers stage. Various diaries, squadron histories and combat reports etc. Would like to tell the story of an "ordinary" squadron through 1918. I am lucky as there are several good diaries from both pilots and ground fitters together with the recently published diary of Guy Knocker. I think there are plently of good books details RFC / RAF history but I would like to look closer at a particular squadron and try to bring the people involved from black and white photographs to life.

Well thats the plan anyway.

Simon

'14-'18aviationcollector · 9 November 2009, 12:36 AM

Hi Simon,

I have at least seven 65 Squadron photographs I was able to find. One of them is a group photo of 65 Squadron Officers at Courtrai, taken in November 1918. If you don't already have a copy of this photograph, and if you would like to include it in your book, you are very welcome - that is of course assuming that he is in that particular photo. I don't know what he looks like.

Regards,

David.

Simon Birch · 9 November 2009, 06:07 AM

Hello David.

I will accept your kind offer and PM you.

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Simon

RussGannon · 10 November 2009, 04:22 PM

Simom

Sounds good to me. I'd love to see a decent book on every squadron. So far only a handful.

My interest is who was shooting at who - am aware of 65 Sqn's claims & losses - would happily run up a combat log for your peruzal. If you are interested contact me in private messages.

My old man has your badge on his car and his key chain. He was born in Mould North Wales.

Actually as it is only 5 minutes to the 11th hour of the 11th day down here.

Lest we forget.

'14-'18aviationcollector · 10 November 2009, 04:55 PM

Hi guys,

You're very welcome Simon! I have just replied to your e-mail, and it is very nice to hear from you, thank you! You wouldn't believe this, but the photographs you have sent me copies of are virtually identical to the group of photographs I have in my collection. I have one more other than the ones you sent me. It is a very nice group photograph of Capt A Jones - Williams, Capt NA Newnham (sic.) DFC, Maj HV Champion de Crespigny MC, Lieut Hearkley - Magis and Capt Storey in front of a 65 Squadron Sopwith Camel.

Hi Russ,

I would also love to see a decent book on every Squadron. I certainly have the photograph collection which would make the basis of such a series of books, but I spend most of my time collecting structural information on aeroplanes, and photographs, rather than the specific research required in order to publish a book or a series of books. That's the reason I try to let authors and researchers such as yourself know when I am travelling with my photograph collection, as I did last January. Any author is very welcome to use any of my photographs in any such publication.

Lest we forget.

Gregvan · 10 November 2009, 08:31 PM

Hello Simon,

In regard to your work on 65 Sqdn, have you seen the recent Over the Front issue, Volume 24 No. 2, 2009?

It features a detailed article on 2/Lt. Robert Howell "Bob" Cowan of 65, by the esteemed Canadian historian Stewart Taylor. Stew knew Cowan's son, and he tells the fascinating tale of Cowan's training, his brief time with the squadron, and how he was shot down on 18 December 1917 by Hans Gottfried von Haebler of Jasta 36. The article contains two short letters from von Haebler describing his victory and his meeting with Cowan. The RFC prisoner gave von Haebler his flying cap and the two exchanged cards, etc. Later, von Haebler was killed, but Cowan made contact with the German ace's father in the 1930's. The two established a warm relationship through letters for a brief time - thus Stew entitled his article "Surrogate Son".

Stew also provides details of other Canadians who served in 65, including 2/Lt. Cameron and Lt.

Edward Carter Eaton.The article also contains some very enlightening letters from 2/Lt. Douglas Michael Sage, a South African, about his intro to the squadron, his flights and accidents.

I was privileged to edit that particular issue, so I have some pretty good scans of the photos used.

Greg

Simon Birch · 11 November 2009, 12:57 AM

Gentlemen.

First of all thank you for getting in touch. I joined this forum in the hope of broadening my contacts and to fish about for what is actually out there and I will say that everyone as been more than helpful.

When I was twelve in my English class, each pupil had to give a ten minute talk on any subject he chose. Most picked rugby, soccer or some soon to be forgotten pop star. I picked the Sopwith Camel. My class mates studied me with a bored nonchalance as I went through engines, armament, what they did and why. I produced my home drawn pictures and pinned them to the blackboard. We were scored out of ten in two ways, originality of subject and presentation. I scored 9 for originality and 8 for presentation. The other class scholars were aghast that I had managed to pull it off. It did help however that I knew the master did a little flying himself, and I was granted peace and quiet for a term from him. I suspect W E Johns had a lot to do with my choice as at the time I was flying through the Biggles books myself.

I picked 65 Squadron because I wrote a low level book on the casualties of my old school and one of them was Captain Eric Guy Brookes D.F.C, himself an ace, and somehow got more attached to him than the others. From there grew my interest in the squadron so I started digging.

I am currently just finishing transcribing the diary of Airman Thomas Spencer and hopefully (copyright allowing) will start on those of Airman Morris Waldron shortly. Apart from that I have a reasonably complete set of combat reports and the Squadron history. Incidentally both of these came from Dallas University of all places, as they were cheaper and quicker than the National Archives here. As you may be aware there is an old Cross and Cockade article by Norman Franks & Frank Bailey which gives of the history. But I would like to add some meat to those bones and bring the character of the men involved as much as possible.

Greg – Had not thought to investigate the bleeding obvious and look at “Over the Front” particularly stupid has several of “my” pilots were American and Canadian. I cannot believe I did not think of that. Will sort that out this morning and thank you for pointing that out.

Russ – Mold is about 20 miles from here. It is small market town where nothing ever changes. The people are friendly and it is just a nice place to live. Small World.

Thanks Again Gents.

Best Wishes from Wales.

Simon