noble of birth?

frontflieger · 19 February 2003, 07:34 AM

Hello, reading the lists of aces etc. I can not identify any British noble man [of birth!! not judging their action!!]. Wheren't there any - or: who was of noble birth? Like the German 'von's or the French 'de's... ???

Vin · 19 February 2003, 09:05 AM

The nobly born joined the Royal Navy. *You are more likely to find them, if any, among the ranks of the RNAS than the RFC. *At the outbreak of war, the King’s two oldest sons were serving members of the Royal Navy. *The second son, ‘Bertie, later King George VI, was declared unfit for service at sea, transferred to the RNAS in 1917 and took a pilot’s licence. *He was still in the service after 1 April 1918 when it became part of the RAF. *Philippos Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg, the current Royal Consort was advised by Lord Mountbatten, the son of Prince Louis of Battenberg, to join the Royal Navy on the basis that the RAF was for the working classes, the Navy for aristocrats. *Both saw action in WW 11. *Prince Andrew saw action as a Navy helicopter pilot in the Falklands.

Cheers
Vin

PeterL · 19 February 2003, 10:44 PM

There is no equivalent *in English to the German "von". Titles *can be passed from one family to another and *are, therefor, separate from family names (eg: the duke of Wellington's surname is not Wellington). In military terms the rank takes precedence, thus Monty was Field Marshal Viscount Sir Bernard Montgomery. Note that neither of the two examples given were of noble birth but were enobled for thier services.

It gets a little more complicated when Royalty is involved with Prince Andrew becoming Lt His Royal Highness the Duke of York. Is that the rumble of a tumbril I hear?

frontflieger · 19 February 2003, 11:00 PM

Quote:

There is no equivalent *in English to the German "von". Titles *can be passed from one family to another(...)

Perhaps I used a wrong term. I meant it generally: weren't there any personals - equal to the Baron von Richthofens, von Boenigk, von Rautter, von Schoenebeck; or the Counts...

PeterL · 19 February 2003, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Perhaps I used a wrong term. I meant it generally: weren't there any personals - equal to the Baron von Richthofens, von Boenigk, von Rautter, von Schoenebeck; or the Counts...

I doubt it. That's one of the elements which makes the Richthofen legend unique. If it helps with your search, had he been English and the hier to nobility he would have been referred to as Captain The Honourable

Manfred von Richthofen, or possibly Captain The Honourable Sir Manfred von Richthofen . That's the form you are looking for.

Russell · 20 February 2003, 10:12 AM

There were quite a few. Viscount Glentworth, Lord Lucas, and then as younger sons and cousins etc had no title those related to the nobility, the most noted family being Capt Grosvenor's of 84, who's relatives are the Dukes of Westminster. Constable Maxwell's are related to a Duke, and Richard Leighton of 56 was the son of a Knight, so there were a lot, they are just hard to track. Then there was the Scottish aristo who killed the german Prince in 1916?? from memory.