Billy Bishop Again

[MacBain]

In "The Making..." Greenhous admits to considering Bishop's "REAL" score to be something around 23-27. *Just a tad bit more than Jasta would agree with.

VBR,

Al Lowe

*I personally would have to disagree with Greenhous

All but seven of Bishop's offical score is noted in RFC communique. The communique dates are noted in Above the Trenches.

Just for the record the score of the British Empire's ace of aces was:

* * * * *2 Balloons
* * * * *52 and 2 shared destroyed
* * * * *16 out of control.

* * That fact that Bishop was a colonial and a Canadian drove the British crazy.

* I also have heard the Canadians were popular with the women of the UK. Must have something to do with those long winter nights *

* * * * * MacBain

[Richard_Schrader]

McBain;
Billy's score was in truth is 55, which is nothing to be sneezed at. There is no evidence at all of his "VC" raid, even a lot of British pilots say it was a untruth.

Richard

[Billy_Bishop]

A lot? What, two, maybe three?? So far as I know, Caldwell, Fry, and perhaps one other from his squadron of the time have expressed their doubts.

As to those who were not preset, Mannock supporter, and someone whom we can say almost definitely "streched the truth" Taffy Jones. And then there's Fred Libby. Who so exaggerated Bishop's claims as to make some of us wonder who he was REALLY talking about.

The people I would have expected to say something derogatory about Bishop, those under his command in 85 squadron, did not. At least, so far as I am aware, they have not said anything publicly.

So far, to date, public comments that are negative about Bishop pale in comparison to accolades. Perhaps this is not an accurate barometer, but with the apparent lack of any other proof, we haven't much to go on.

Certainly, Greenhous was pulling tricks out of his sleeves to write his book.

VBR,

Al Lowe

[Richard_Schrader]

Al;
I agree with you about Jones, but I've never heard anyone say anything bad about Libby. I haven't read his book, but I did thumb through it. The book seemed to be fairly even about things.

Richard

[Billy_Bishop]

It's been mentioned here before, in his book, he (or maybe his editor) makes mention of a pilot who is not named who "claims" to have attacked a German airfield one morning and shoots down 6-8 enemy aircraft.

I'm not saying that Libby mentioned it. It is in his book, and all things considered, it's just as likely that someone else put it there, since his book was only published recently and he, has been dead for quite some time.

SO, even in mentioning him, I don't consider him to have actually remarked negatively on Bishop. But, someone is certainly trying to make it seem like he did.

VBR,

Al Lowe

[wings]

If you were to ask the top 10 WWI air researchers in the world about Bishop, how many would say that he told the truth about his claims? Ask people like Kilduff, Franks, Imrie, Revell, etc.

[Billy_Bishop]

EVERYONE is entitled to their OPINIONS. Even Ben Greenhous.

[Richard_Schrader]

Al;
You did not answer Wings's question, you are spinning!

Richard

[Billy_Bishop]

Wings mentions first the top ten researchers in the world, THEN he mentions Kilduff, Imrie, Franks and Revell.

WHen will he make up his mind?

Does anyone know who are the top 10 researchers? *I don't. *

And my guess is that other than a select few, most will likely keep their opinions to themselves.

I've had communication from several already in the past few years. *MOST of them decline to say one way or the other since there is insufficient evidence for them to make a solid informed opinion.

Unless they've since changed their minds, or found something I'm not aware of, the last time I traded emails with Russel Guest and Rick Duiven, they had decided to stay out of the BB affair. *

As far as Peter Kilduff goes, I believe his major interest is the Red Baron. *I don't know if he holds any opinion on Bishop, or if he'd air that opinion. *The last time I traded emails with him, it was in regards to Arch Whitehouse. *I don't believe I've seen much in print from him on Bishop either.

So who's left? *Well, I'm pretty sure that Barrett is still on the fence. *I believe Frank Olynyk has mostly declined to weigh in, except to explain in greater details how the scoring system worked in WWI. *I know that Barrett's main complaint is that WWI scores should be more deeply scrutinized so that those who have shared claims have their score judged more in lines with WWII methods.

Beyond that, about the only thing we ever got into was the theory of Bishop's missing gun. *Which, now, oddly enough, thanks to Greenhous' book, looks to be a none issue.

As Greenhous points out in his book, other than Bishop's son, and Willy Fry, NO ONE ELSE (except to continue the story from either Arthur Bishop or Willy Fry) has ever mentioned his gun was missing. *Not his mechanic, nor anyone else who was at Filescamp aerodrome, OTHER than Willy Fry, said the gun was missing when Bishop returned after his early morning flight.

But I'm still left wondering, WHO are the top ten WWI Researchers???

VBR,

Al Lowe
(Not spinning, had to reload, line up my shot, and.....)

[Richard_Schrader]

Al;
Okay, we will let the viewers decide:
Billy Bishop victories.
1. 23
2. 55
3. 72
Was Bully Billy's VC raid for real?
1. Yes
2. No