Blumenthal ,Bluethenthal, Kirschstein, Menckhoff?

[rammjaeger]

A while ago Ira Silverman reported about Caporal Bluethenthal of Br 227. He was said to be killed by Carl Menckhoff (32. victory) near St. Leger on 5. June 1918.

In Grub Street books incl. also the new book by Bailey/Cony the man is named Caporal Blumenthal and the victory (17.35 near Ambleny) is given to Hans Kirschstein (his 22. victory).

Which name is correct?
Who was the victor?

[Gregvan]

Dear Rammjaeger,

It was definitely Bluethenthal. Arthur Bluethenthal was an American serving in the Lafayette Flying Corps. In May 1916 he had enlisted in the American Ambulance Field Service, spending the next four months at the Verdun Front and earning the Croix de Guerre. After serving on the Salonika Front, , he returned to France and enlisted in the Foreign Legion so he could transfer to the Aviation Francaise. On March 17, 1918 he arrived at Br. 227 at Souilly. On June 5, 1918 he was flying an artillery spotting mission with Lt. de Coopman as his observer when they were attacked by four enemy fighters. According to Jon Guttman's article on Bluethenthal in 'Windsock' Vol. 13 No. 4, July/August 1997, they were shot down in French lines at Maignelay, near Amiens. Jon gives the probable credit to Menckhoff. Four days later,Bluethenthal posthumously received the Croix de Guerre with palm.

In my old copy of Rick Duiven's Jasta 72 notes, he also credits Menckhoff as the victor. I'll let those who have far more expertise in figuring out "who got who" debate this.

You can find more info about Bluethenthal in "The Lafayette Flying Corps" books by Dennis Gordon (Schiffer, 2000) or in the original LFC Volumes by Nordhoff and Hall. If you wish to learn more, simply let me know.

Hope that helps.

Greg VanWyngarden

[rammjaeger]

Thank you very much for your helpful answer, Greg!

Now I know Bluethenthal is the correct name.
I looked at the map and found a Maignelay south of Montdidier (but not near Amiens). The location of Menckhoffs claim seems to be St. Léger-aux-Bois. That is 20 miles away but still closer than Kirschstein´s (Ambleny) and Jasta 6 (three) Breguet claims. I think Jasta 6 met Br 129 (1 crew killed, 1 crew WIA).

Thanks again.

VBR
Rammjaeger

Hi everyone,

I was reading this thread and found it interesting. Could anyone tell me what type aircraft was Menckhoff flying when he downed Bluethenthal and
Coopman from Br.227? Just curious if he was flying his famous Fokker DVII with the large "M" painted on it.

regards