Wing Flappers

[Rod_Filan]

Originally posted by jempie@Apr 19 2004, 02:28 PM
[b] P.S Added here what I accept was the original "Ornis 1" into exhibition at Brussels Januari 1913 Transport Exhibition...into our books wrongly annotated as to be the Villard one from 1902! The motor is this Anzani who was donated by King Albert I! How they can make such mistakes is incomprehensible! Has two (fixed) wings!

Am I to understand Ornis I was rebuilt into Ornis II. In the photo taken of Ornis II at St. Agatha Berchem there are no wings to be seen. Was the major distinction between the I and II was Ornis I had wings and Ornis II didn't ? I presume both used the same motor (Anzani), donated by King Albert I.

VBR
Rod

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Rod_Filan Posted on Apr 19 2004, 06:51 PM

What you see on De la Hault no.2 Ms. Cadet, is the wing seen chordwise. If you look at the other wing at the same time and place them in symetrical positions, you'll see it.

Okay, I'm lookin again, and I hear what you're saying, but I still don't get it.

And isn't that some Texas-sized tail skid!!

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Oh, wait a minute! I get it now! Okay, yeah. I didn't realize that was an ornithopter and what looks like a giant Jenny prop is the right wingtip! Most of the left wing from root to tip can be seen, tipped up at an angle. Yes?

[Rod_Filan]

Jempie ! We need a better picture ! Please send me one

Hey, I could be wrong here but lets wait and see what the expert has to say.

And yes... I first thought the tail-skid was a major flaw in the photo !

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Jean-Pierre, your great efforts on that last one did not go wasted! Much education and amusement. But what is "digue"?


Rod_Filan Posted on Apr 19 2004, 07:25 PM

Hey, I could be wrong here but lets wait and see what the expert has to say.

Hey! You makin funnome? I may be slow, but I'm proud.


Well let's see. In my xspurt opinion, uh... what he said!



You know what an xspurt is, don't you?
X = an unknown quantity
spurt = drip
xspurt = an unknown drip


Oh, and I thought the Texas-sized tail-skid was rather ornate and beautiful. Almost Barouque in design!

Don't get the vertical tail surface at all, though. Looks like a completely different designer came up with that than whoever created the graceful wings.

[jempie]

Hi Rod!

Will scan and mail the pictures into bigger size to you!
Pity I lost those other pictures I got emailed on the Villard!
Some shot at Berchem-St. Agatha (Brussels) showed in fact already a model close to the "Ornis III"!

What goes on the wings on I, it's pity the photo isn't a full side photo, without that balustrade (fence) around!
By times you could eventually think these wings were flapwings?
But I don't think they were!

Sorry but needed once a dictionary !

"Digue" in Dutch is "Dijk" and in English = "Dike"!
Were no sanddunes aren't anymore, seen they built along the Belgian coast cities and villages are hardstone dikes to protect these against the high tide of sea! At Ostend in general there is no beach by high tide!
Behind these dunes and dikes are lower lands situated, remember WWI,
Nieuport....by high tide these lands would be flooded!


Meanwhile I post here once the Villard helicopter as it was to see at the Brussels exhibition 1902!
This comes from the "American Scientific" n° 86 published 8 March 1902 and they speak there from a motor weight of 130 pounds
which means some 60 kg and a 4 cilinder Buchet motor of 12 hp.
The full weight of this structure should have been 650 to 750 pounds.
My Belgian book speaks about 350 kg.
The full English text I forward you too!

About June a more complete text will be published about Villard into the membership magazine of BAHA by Pierre Crijns, which is indeed a specialist into such early (Belgian) aviation history.

VBR

Jempie

[Rod_Filan]

Originally posted by AAC Cadet Leader@Apr 20 2004, 09:20 AM
[b] Hey! You makin funnome? I may be slow, but I'm proud.

I meant the other spurt. The one with his finger in the Digue. I guess that would make him the unspurt !

Good observation on the dis-similarities on the wings vs. empenage. However the elegant airfoil shape appears to be consistent with the plane surfaces throughout.

VBR
Rod

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Is that Villard, himself pictured in his helicopter at Brussels?

That one must have had great lateral stability. Not!

Where's das puttersparken?

Keep em coming, Jean-Pierre!

[Wind In The Wires]

Love the 1902 Villard. Was the "rotor" composed of individual slats or one "helical screw"? What kind of control system was used?

ex=has been

spurt=drip under pressure

expert =has been drip under pressure

[jempie]

Hi Rod!

The photo of the Ornithopter n° 1 of A. de la Hault!
It's not impossible Villard is indeed that tall man left! (?) of the machine?



Traced an article (in French) on Ornithopters and indeed in there this machine is mentioned as had to be a "ornithopter"!
For more they write about the propellers when turning as : "realising flapwings under the action of a " rotule" (no French dictionary at hand! Sorry) but means something that is "rotating") describing a "lemniscate"....
Further is mentioned that it was surprising this invention got so good as forgotten after 1910....

(Published into "Conquête de l'Air, 1st July 1929 but no plandrawing from this machine in it&#33


Haha! !

JUST NOW traced a photo of Ornithopter n °1 of A. de la Hault!!
However with only two propellorblades instead of two on two axes as I had in mind and NOT rotating around a vertical axe! But only around a horizontal one!
(perhaps I confused it with another model from another inventor? It's possible! It had been quite a long time ago,I had it under my eyes indeed&#33

Here the photo added!
Technical data I have in here are

de la Hault "FLAPPER..."
Wingspan : 4 m / Surface 6,5 m²
Weight 81,5 kg
Body : Rectabgular tubeframe on 4 wheels supporint double triangle at the apex of which the wings are mounted.
Wings : 2 wings which in turning trace a figure 8. Mounted on trunnions by a pair of spur wheelsthrough ball and socket connections.
Spur wheels geared to the engine.
Motor 8 cylinder horizontal oopposed Miesse 100 hp. Bore : 130 mm Air cooled and vertical crank shaft.
Stearing : altering by the inclinations of wings.
Remark : belongs to the Miesse company.

Source : Jane's all the World Airships 1909.