Balloon/Dirigible Licenses

Doc · 7 December 2006, 12:03 AM

Good morning, all. I'm still looking for lists of French licensees as balloon pilots and dirigible pilots from before WWI. Can anyone help? Thanks. Doc

jempie · 23 December 2006, 12:15 PM

Hio DOC!

Merry x-mas en a fine 2007!

Notice : after 18th january I won't have here internet anymore!
Reason :1) My son moves and the installatuion will be moving with!
2) The hobby-house here is "for sale"!

What goes on your question, just as there are "Annuaire's" from the belgian Aero-Club there are simular from the French one!

Think you should need to contact Le Bourget DocumentationCenter (Air Museum) to see if they have them?

By pure coincidence I have the one from 1910 only...but in there I do not believe is a pure list on those who were licensed as into the Belgian "Annuaire's"

They are mentioned into an alfbetic list of members and further than is indicated with a balloon,airship, or swallow before the name if they were owner (!) of a balloon , airship or plane!
It's difficult even to tell (up to 1910) this way who was in fact a "licensed" aeronaute!

Balloon and airship pilots in France were f.e. Count de la Vaulx, Capazza, and others....

However I am packing in my things here...no idea where these will be stored into the future and when I finally will be anabled to pick up again my hobby, or if it will be pity enough a forced abandon (a farewell) of the hobby to me !

Sorry guys! It was my long life to me, this hobby!

Greetings,

Jempie (Jean-Pierre Lauwers/ Bruges)

To all members also a Merry X-mas and Prosper New Year 2007!

jempie · 23 December 2006, 12:27 PM

More names do fall me in, the Godard's (several members of the family), Surcouf, Nadar (Felix Tournachon), The brothers Henry and Maurits Farman (balloon pilots, later aviators) , Santos-Dumont in France, .....
But a real list ?

I have only one for Belgium myself.
There were before WWI 64 licensed balloon pilots...(Last one was Madame Gausset!)
Officially one airship pilot : Robert Goldschmidt! But a number of others also were airship pilots without an official license from 1909 on in Belgium.

Than, there were a number of balloonpilots before the licenses were granted which never got on when the Aé.C.B. started (1908-1909!) with granting them too!

But's all now out of my memory seen my books "are packed" in at this moment!

Greetings,

Jempie

Doc · 24 December 2006, 02:06 AM

Thanks, Jempie. I hope you are back on line and enjoying your hobby in the near future. I have found a list of French balloon licenses up to late 1913, so that helps. Will check le Bourget and see if they have a similar one for the dirigibles. If it turns out you can't unpack all your stuff, or lose interest, please let me know, as I might be interested in buying it from you.

Thanks for all I have learned from you over the years.

All the best for Christmas and the Holiday season, and I hope we have you back on line in the very near future. Doc

jempie · 24 December 2006, 06:34 AM

Hallo Doc!

From the 1910 Annuaire of the Aé.C.F.:

Those who are given up with the airship symbol!

CLEMENT Gustave (Balloon, plane, airship)
CLOUTH Richard (was a German! VClouth factory of Kôln!) Balloon & Airship.
Professor Gans de Fabrice, Paul Friederich, (Germany) Airship
Now about this one I was recently in search to find more about him and his airship! Must have been constructed period 1909 ILA Frankfurt & 1910.
Adress was: Gramisch & Villa Stella-Cannes!) didn't kniw he was a member of the Aé.C.F.too! In Germany I found his name as GANS-FABRICE!

GODARD Louis , Balloon & Airship

JULLIOT Henri . Balloon & Airship.

Count de la VAULX Balloon,Airship,Plane

MALLET Maurice , Balloon & Airship.

August von Parseval (Germany) Balloon & Airship

Santos-Dumont. Balloon,Airship, Plane

SIMONI (Don) Airship Frenchman, never heard before from him!
(Address ; 41,rue Gaulthier, Courbevoie.

SPIESS Joseph (Spiess rigid airship)

SURCOUF Eduard. Balloon,Airship,Plane.

These are thus those into the Annuaire of 1910...

Nt indicated in here as to have been airship pilots f.e. is :

CAPAZZA Louis, who was one following what I know!
He was the pilot of the airship Clémént-Bayard who did tumble into the Seine river 1909 ?
Than "Malecot" and his airship from 1908 ? Not to find in it!
And there are sure more which I normally thought to have been airship pilots not indicated in here!

Well this thus a partly list seen after 1909 there has been surely more until WWI!
If its identical to Belgium, the last Annuaire before WWI is 1914...but always so this "Annuaire 1914" is reporting the licenses until so a bit April 1913 mainly! Thus lmater granted licenses aren't in it for than 1913 until 1914!

VBR

Jempie

Doc · 25 December 2006, 02:32 AM

Jempie, thanks again for more information. All the best for Christmas, the New Year, and the move. Doc

Doc · 25 December 2006, 02:44 AM

Jempie, with regards to Gans-Fabrice.... I find no reference to him in the book Neumann, "Die Internationalen Luftschiffe 1910"published in Oldenburg in 1910. It supposedly covers all airships worldwide up to February 1910, so his must have been constructed after that. Clouth's ship is mentioned, along with many of the more well-known ones. Sorry I can help more with Gans-Fabrice. Doc

jempie · 25 December 2006, 10:15 AM

Hi Doc!

Gans-Fabrice : he was gone to contruct a kind of dirigible balloon...

Pity enough I don't know the final constrcution of it, all I ever have seen is a photo of a balloon-basket(!) foreseen with two sidepropellors which was into exhibition at the ILA 1909 (October) and stood so good as sure into the shed of the Ruthenberg airship!

Arnsbert Vorreiter book (1911) shows a photo the airship sheds for ILA 1909 constructed and the one "under construction" he annotated as to be the shed for ""Ruthenberg" and "Gans-Fabrice" airships!

But so to see Gans-fabrice showed only there his motorised "balloon" basket!

Somewhere after the ILA Gans-fabrice might have been finishing his construction? 1910 than ?

Was it gone to be a motorised balloon as the "Mediterrannée II" from Count de la Vaulx ? (That one had a motorised and double bladed "one propeller"!
He tried to cross the Mediterrannean See " with his "I" (1901) and "II" (1902?)!

Maybe inspired by this Gans-Fabrice was perhaps gone to contruct also such "dirigible balloon" one?

Seen he ad a Villa 'Stella" at Cannes/ France, it's fair well possible he did up there that idea!

Seen I have since long years an "UNIDENTIFEID" so called "new German military airship" photo at hand, I wondered me a bit , if by pure coincidence Gans-Fabrice might have been the contructor from this one ???

It could be he "modernized" a bit is project?

The gondola here is surely no ordinary "balloon-basket" , that's why...

But the photo (only I know to excisyt from this one!) is quite "dull" and further details aren't that well to see on it!

At least semi-rigid, gasbag as a slice of a bowl....girder probably circle or (eventually eleptic?) looks gasfilled (hangs against the ceiling ) might be a modell? or real size? Not to make out that easy!

Photographer the Frenchman TRAMPUS who also was war-photographer during WWI into the region around that Mediterannean Sea too!

So a few weeks ago , by pure coincidence, that tought did fall me in that maybe that "unidentified airship" was perhaps the Gans-Fabrice ????

But NONE seems to now it! And NONE seems to have an idea about how that Gans-Fabrice was really looksliking too!

So I wonder, who in fact could identify this one, and / or could give a picture from the one Gans-Fabrice should have been contructing too!

But worldwide, none of those I contacted, was ever anabled to identify it!
So if someone could identify it, I would be very , very gratefull!

greetings,

Jempie

jempie · 25 December 2006, 10:35 AM

Sorry!

Forgot to mention the source of this photo : It was published into the first half of September 1910 into "Le Patriote Illustré" and into L'Illustration Europeénne both printed at Brussel and having the identical content!

However by pure coincidence that week no comment was given on the photos which were spread published in it ! Normally on the last page of these there was some text on he photos under "nos gravures"!

So no idea thus which was the constructor of it!

Than it had also two sidepropellors, above is the ventilator for the air-ballonnet to detect and its just as the Gans-Fabrice basket photo I have seen before once, suspended on such circle shaped suspension balloonring!
That's a bit why I made the link to him, but I might have it fully wrong too!

At the time I thought it was a moderner concept from the Bot-Lallemand airship (at that moment under contruction in France-Luneville, who got destroyed into her shed when the shed was blownover by a hurricane lat February 1911! The principles where about the same as this one!

Probably an airship heavier-than-air / lighter-than-air..;once a man (or two) went in it it became less or more heavier-than-air and the undersurface of the balloon was used as "wing" , under motorforce it could lift when the bow was taised up a bit! The undersurface of the balloon worked than less or more as wing or kite-surface! Was also altituderudder thus!

See Rod Filans website for the Bot-Lallemand also to understand a bit how it worked!

VBR

Jempie

Doc · 26 December 2006, 03:25 AM

Jempie, interesting concept, though I wonder if it was any closer to really being constructed than many other fanciful airships of the period.... That certainly looks like a drawing rather than a photo.... All the best for the New Year. Doc