windham monoplane 1909

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by aerohydro

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I've also been reading up about Captain Windham and the 1909 Doncaster Flying Week, and I came across a photo, different to the one in Varese2002's posting, but showing the very same group. In this new photo, Captain Windham is specifically identified as being seated, second from the left. So he's the man in the light-coloured cap, and wearing an armband.

Also, the Windham Monoplane mentioned as being at the Doncaster meet was quite a different creature to your Windham Monoplane. The Doncaster machine was a monoplane styled on the Bleriot Type XI, except his had a fuselage with a triangular cross-section, rather than a square-shaped one as on the Bleriot.

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Cheers,
Paul

Hi Paul, you are absolutely right. The machine at Doncaster was the Blériot look alike - mostly attributed as the Windham Tractor Monoplane. This one collapsed in Doncaster.

Captain Windham's second monoplane was a Blériot-typr tractor of orthodox though flimsy construction. It was powered by a 35 h.p. Dutheil-Chalmers engine driving a Beedle propeller. The open fuselage was triangular in section. The machine was brought out at the Doncaster Aviation Meeting in October, 1909, where it achieved transient notoriety by collapsing while its owner was sitting in it to be photographed. After repairs, it was involved in a collision with a car while taxying, and this finally wrecked it.

Of course, as always, more questions begin to pop up:

I found out that it was Captain W.G.Windham who was the founder of the British Aero Club. But not much more is known about him. He probably hastily leaved active flying after the debacle with the tractor monoplane.

Who was he?

What really happened to his more revolutionary tandem wing bamboo machine? Why did he stop development so quickly and started anew with a Blériot look-alike?

As I had never heard from the Beedle propeller I searched somewhat and found this amazing propeller



As so often again with this propeller and his inventor William Beedle there is something peculiar as the propeller was clearly already there in 1909, but a full patent was accepted on July 2, 1920 (!). Surely there was no reason then to make the effort to patent this propeller.

Is there something to be said about the theory behind this propeller? Perhaps Yavor can explain something about that?

Cheers

Kees

[Varese2002]

A picture of the special Beedle propeller from Flight (1910).



Cheers

Kees

[ermeio]

Hi, Kees,
thats most interesting!
I had never heard about these props before being involved in the research about Windham and his bamboo monoplane and before seeing the bleriot-like monopane photo.
Maybe more info will surface in the next days.
The questions that you posed are challenging..

thanks again
Ermeio

[Rod_Filan]

Too large to post in the thread...here's a Tyler's Topical Series magic lantern glass slide photo taken of Captain Wyndham standing in front of his Beedle propeller at Doncaster Aviation Week. Given the embarrassed look he has on his face, and the mechanic working on making repairs to the gear, one could suppose this is after he collapsed his monoplane while sitting in it---before he drove it into a car.

Just for the heck of it...another entry at Doncaster...the Chauviere Monoplane.

Cheers
Rod

[ermeio]

Hi, all
just for the sake of some strange things that surface while searching for something else:
it seems that Windham was not the only one using the beedle props but also Horace Wallis used the same strange propellers in the mayfly tandem biplane, as stated in the following:

Seddon Mayfly -


Horace Wallis

I'm quoting the former with some adjustment:

"It is interesting to note that about the time the original "Windham tandem monoplane" was under construction, Accles & Pollock was busy building The Seddon Biplane at Oldbury in Worcestershire, a novel aircraft of wholly tubular steel arrangement designed by Lt. J. W. Seddon R.N. and A. G. Hackett. Nicknamed "The Mayfly", it was a six-seat, tandem biplane and the world's largest aeroplane at that time. This fantastic structure comprised 2,000 feet of steel tubing arranged as intersecting hoops or geodetics, and was powered by two 65 h.p. N.E.C. engines that drove a pair of Beedle tractor propellers. Unfortunately, it waws tested at the Dunstall Park, Wolverhampton, flyhing ground of the Midland Aeero Club late in 1910 but failed completely to emulate its name and was later broken up without having left the ground!"

photos of this strange "may-flyer":

seddon_mayfly_1.jpg

seddon_mayfly.jpg

that would be a nice subject for a model, too!

best regards

Ermeio

[YavorD]

Hi!
Concerning Beedle propeller, it reminds me parts of some harvesting or snow moving machinery. In my opinion, it is awfully inefficient as a propeller (or fan impeller), but simple, sturdy, and cheap ...
About 1909 aeroplane and marine propellers were usually much more sophisticated devices .
Regards,
Yavor

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rod_Filan

Too large to post in the thread...here's a Tyler's Topical Series magic lantern glass slide photo taken of Captain Wyndham standing in front of his Beedle propeller at Doncaster Aviation Week. Given the embarrassed look he has on his face, and the mechanic working on making repairs to the gear, one could suppose this is after he collapsed his monoplane while sitting in it---before he drove it into a car.

Just for the heck of it...another entry at Doncaster...the Chauviere Monoplane.

Cheers
Rod

Rod, splendid picture or better lantern glass slide, showing the (then) captain Windham. The spelling is really Windham. Full name is Walter George Windham, who made it to Sir Walter George Windham (1868-1942). See for more information on Sir Walter here.

Windham had an active interest in motor cars and eventually designed and built a car with a detachable back patented in GB and the USA (Patent 870,750).

His career in avaiation is described as follows on Oakington Plane - Windham Detachable Motor Body Co.

In 1908 Windham formed the Aeroplane Club, which at first only had a membership of about a dozen, but it was not long before the numbers topped a thousand. The purpose of the club was:- “To advise, help, and give practical information to all English inventors who are interested, directly or indirectly, in the ‘heavier-than-air’ flying machine, and to provide them with a congenial meeting place for the discussion of their ideas’.

Later that year Windham arranged for a number of groups of students from the Regent Street Polytechnic to travel to Paris. The excursion started from Victoria Station in a reserved train. While there the students were able to visit the various manufacturers of planes and aero engines. It was not long before others who were involved with aviation wanted to join the trips.

At one stage there was a proposal that the Aeroplane Club should amalgamate with the Aero Club (which later became the Royal Aero Club). However this merger did not materialize. By January 1909 the Aeroplane Club had around 1,300 member and had their first aeroplane dinner at the Savoy. During this meeting the difficultly of finances and the fact that they had no premises was discussed. Consequently it was decided to combine with the Motor Union, which gave the club a sound financial base. Shortly after Mr Rees Jeffery who had run the Motor Union left for a post on the Road Board and the new combined club’s members and funds were handed over to the Automobile Association.

Judging from this he was a real enthusiast for aviation, but there is not much evidence of knowledge of practical engineering. His very first plane was designed with assistance of the Frenchman Pischoff.

Sir Windham is associated with the first air mail flight in India on February 18, 1911. Look further here.

After this event his name did not come up again in aviation matters AFAIK.

Cheers

Kees

[Varese2002]

William Beedle really had something with propellers In 1902 he built an (unsuccesfull) airship in England. He got a British patent for a steerable propeller in airships in 1903 (15139).

As Beedle was not able to achieve anything with his airship, owing probably to the smallness of the envelope and 'an insufficiency of funds'. Beedle contined as an inventor and applied between 1901 and 1920 for nine patents in all - four of them were abandoned - for screw and marine propellers, aeroplane wings, aeroplanes and an airship.
In January 1910, Beedle registered the Beedle Propeller and Aeroplane Co Ltf at Watford. The firm was not succesfull. Beedle died at Watford on October 4, 1931. (1)

(1) Extracted from Alec McKinty. The father of British airships. A biography of E.T.Willows

This is a proud William Beedle standing with his propeller



This is a stitched together patent drawing of the Beedle propeller



Ermeio, I think you owe it to William Beedle to resurrect in these times his unique propeller

Cheers

Kees

[YavorD]

Hi!

From an engineers' point of view, the Beedle propeller is a shortened version of the then 2200 years old Archimedes device without the duct.

At this time (early 20th century) Archimedes screw was used for about a century in marine propulsion systems. Of course, there is a difference. Water density is at least 800 times higher than air density. Airship or aeroplane propeller blade is a sort of wing. In early 20th century an engineer would design propeller blade on the basis of airfoil data, engine characteristics (revs and torque), and projected air speed of the craft in question. Lots of empirical data were available and theory is not too far behind. About 1910 an of-the-shelf propellers were available matched for important engines, and future propeller specialists were producing reasonably good propellers.

Regards,
Yavor

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by YavorD

Hi!

From an engineers' point of view, the Beedle propeller is a shortened version of the then 2200 years old Archimedes device without the duct.

At this time (early 20th century) Archimedes screw was used for about a century in marine propulsion systems. Of course, there is a difference. Water density is at least 800 times higher than air density. Airship or aeroplane propeller blade is a sort of wing. In early 20th century an engineer would design propeller blade on the basis of airfoil data, engine characteristics (revs and torque), and projected air speed of the craft in question. Lots of empirical data were available and theory is not too far behind. About 1910 an of-the-shelf propellers were available matched for important engines, and future propeller specialists were producing reasonably good propellers.

Regards,
Yavor

I see from the caption of the picture of Beedle that an example of the propeller was delivered to Blériot, always an experimenter. Anything known about the use or non-use of this Beedle propeller with Blériot?

Cheers

Kees